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Millennium Transit Might Have A Horse Shoe
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RailBus63
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 1063

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Investors in any North American transit bus manufacturing company should be concerned about the fierce competition going on right now. New Flyer has made a major push to become the dominant player in the market. NABI has grown in recent years and has become a leader in the BRT segment of the market, and Gillig remains a strong player and is capturing many new customers. Orion has been less aggressive in recent years as they first rolled out a more successful low-floor bus, then a hybrid version and now a restyled 'next generation' model, and I think they will bid more actively going forward. Nova BUS and Millennium are preparing to re-enter the U.S. market and El Dorado now has a medium-duty bus to market to smaller properties and the shuttle operators. At the same time, the financial difficulties being faced at all levels of government are at odds with the need to invest in mass transportation and will probably drag down any significant increase in transit bus purchases for a while. It's going to take a strong stomach and lots of patience.
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John Wayne




Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing to note is the ridiculous cost for an entity to join APTA. It's like 8 or 9 k. This is obviously an industry with its head in the government trough.....
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't certain as to exactly what an RTS 'Legend' was (actually they should have called it the RTS 'Classic') so I did a little research and came up with the following;

The RTS bus is one of the most versatile and durable transit products ever produced. The RTS meets all city and suburban transit needs, particularly for operators concerned with life-cycle costs. Thanks to the excellent track record set by the 25,000 plus RTS buses in service in all types of climates and transit conditions, the RTS has become a LEGEND in the transit bus industry.

"The RTS is configured to allow for ADA compliant lifts in either the front or rear door. The RTS stands alone in overall strength and durability. No other bus has this type of history. Stainless steel, modular monocoque design and assembly remain set the standard for a truly unique transit bus for the long haul. A multitude of options allow various passenger comfort levels and interfaces as well as alternative fuel options and storage configurations. Updates to the electrical system, sign system, and fare collection system as well as vehicle communication systems have allowed the timeless design of the RTS to remain as a LEGEND in the transit bus industry".


Note the Texas A & M University job being readied for delivery below.

Photo and information courtesy of Millenium Transit Service LLC

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

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Mr. Transit




Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone have any credible info that, MTS is once again financially strong? Also, is the big foreign bus order, the same one that I heard about four months with Honduras?
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John Wayne




Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if strong is the word. I'd say it appears they have a strong financial backer that is with them for the long haul. Otherwise most companies would have gone belly up long ago.

The foreign purchase I was told is somewhere in Africa, a done deal waiting on red tape. I am sure it has been worked on for some time. don't know if it is the one you are referencing or not. Those kind of deals can take a year to get through all the hoops.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J. W.,

I hope it's not with the Bank of Nigeria!

Mr. 'L'
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John Wayne




Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know. It sounded to me like the world bank was funding it or backing it. Don't know if it would matter what country. But like anything else, its all speculation until there is money in the bank. I hope for their sake it all works out. RTS is a great bus.
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Mr. Transit




Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Updated news on MTS--I just saw a news item on a business news website, that MTS filed for bankruptcy, late last week. It made no mention of how much financial trouble they're in, but said that they're trying to get their assets in order. This could be the final beginning of the end for MTS.
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't say I'm surprised - they just didn't seem to have sufficient capitalization to get off the ground. The New Jersey Transit contract was their big opportunity - when that fell apart, it probably killed their chances of landing another big North American order for some time.
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John Wayne




Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it appears they filed Chapter 11 voluntarily. This means they feel thay can stay in business if allowed to arrange their debts accordingly. They will have to come up with a plan of how they will do that within 90 days or so. But they can still conduct and are conducting business. Probably a way to by time until the overseas deal is complete. It is not unheard of in business and sometimes company's if done correclty can come out very strong from Chapter 11. Although the odds are not good when looking at all filings. Only time will tell. My sources say their staff is still going to work and working on the last few buses for the TAMU order.
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DE60LF




Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, Millennium Transit actually had an order from Santa Fe Trails of Santa Fe, New Mexico a little over a year ago. The order was eventually cancelled, and Santa Fe Trails instead ordered ElDorado EZ Rider II CNG buses. However, I haven't been there in quite a while, so I don't know whether or not their Blue Bird CSRE buses are still in service.

It makes me wonder if the Millennium order from Santa Fe Trails was a request by New Mexico governor Bill Richardson as an effort to use local labor. ABQ RIDE didn't show any interest in purchasing from Millennium, as they wanted low-floor diesel-electric hybrid buses.
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John Wayne




Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium still doing business under chapter 11, delivering final four buses to TAMU in the next month. Operation small at this point but ready to beef up as the large overseas order apparently still in play.

We shall see.... I hope so, the RTS is the best out there IMO.
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Mr. Transit




Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a news article on the Roswell Daily Record website from Monday that mentions that MTS still owes $1.4 million from the $2 million loan it received from the city of Roswell. The last payment they made was on August 27th--$15,000--before they declared bankruptcy. MTS officials had no comment. Doesn't sound encouraging.
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timecruncher



Age: 73
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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Location: Louisville, Kentucky

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly enough, the Millenium website is still up, and if you look around, there is a page that might explain just why the NJT order got canned: http://www.millenniumtransit.com/NJTSBEInfo.asp

Apparently, New Jersey requires a certain percentage of components to be made in-state, and it is possible that MTS simply couldn't comply within the time limits of the RFP.

Add to this the financial issues already mentioned, and there may have been problems getting a performance bond together as well. New Flyer, biggest bus builder in North America, even balks at the performance bond issue, and has lost orders because of their reluctance to back up their own delivery.

It doesn't seem to be a problem with NABI, Diamler/Orion or Gillig. NABI and Orion both have ample foreign financial backing, and Gillig can probably use their petty cash fund to take care of performance bonding issues!

I was impressed with the low-floor RTS demo that was at the APTA Expo in Dallas back in 2005, but if I recall, there was a limit to the engines available in the unit at that time. I can't recall the exact issue, but I believe it had to do with a transverse engine setup on the low floor unit that pretty much negated anything but a DD50 engine -- not a favorite among transit agencies that want to keep buses on the road and out of the shop...

timecruncher

Oh yeah -- we have 38 Flxible Metros from 1992 still running here in Louisville that have those miserable DD50 engines. They rattle, grumble (can hear them across town on a quiet morning), and you can collect part of your pension waiting for them to load up and move!
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

timecruncher,

It's always a pleasure to welcome a new member to the fold (and especially a representative of the great state of Kentucky!) - we look forward to your valued input here at BusTalk.

That New Jersey rule on requiring a certain percentage of parts to be made in-state dates from the days when Public Service Coordinated Transport ruled the roost in the state and built many of their own buses.

However, it would occur to me that that regulation probably hasen't been enforced since the twenties (if it was ever enforced at all) - GM played a huge part in bus transportation in New Jersey for decades and I don't think much of any GM bus was ever manufactured in that state!

I surmise that some clever attorney with New Jersey Transit dug up the ordinance as a way to nullify the deal.

You can say what you want about the Flxible Metro but they take a licking and keep on ticking!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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