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Millennium Transit Might Have A Horse Shoe
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GBL Rebel
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 608
Location: Long Island, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:50 pm    Post subject: Millennium Transit Might Have A Horse Shoe Reply with quote

I found this link on another board--
media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2007/10/30/Opinion
/To.Buy.Or.Not.To.Buy.New.Buses.Are.A.Justified.Purchase-3064400.shtml

Makes it sound like theres hope but there is some real B.S. in the story.
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RTS_04




Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rule of thumb when reading stuff about MTS:

Don't believe much, if any, of it.

I'd immediately throw most op-ed pieces away as baloney. And I'd do just the same for any optimistic piece coming from the Roswell piece. Seems the journalists down there are so unwilling (or coerced not) to ask tough questions about what's going on.

You know it's bad when an RTS nut like myself, who happens to know a few people down in the operation, says this, but I don't see it panning out anytime.

This doesn't look like it's actually a new contract, just a re-sale of the rejected NJT coaches. It is, however, interesting to note this:

Quote:
"Originally, the buses to be received by A&M were to be purchased by the New Jersey Transit Authority. With the Minnesota bridge collapse, though, the government funding that was meant for New Jersey was pulled to aid in Minnesota's clean up and repair. The bus company was anxious to make a deal and A&M found itself ready to offer one."


Wonder how much that's true. NJT's never stated exactly why the MTS business fell through...

It's also interesting to note that MTS doesn't seem to be named explicitly - but I think it's all but apparent it's them.

Anyone notice that these two supposed "new contracts" that MTS has or may get are also some of the last clients Nova had? I seem to remember both Texas A&M and Beaumont getting coaches between 2001 and 2002.

-Evan
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GBL Rebel
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: Long Island, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I may just point out the last part of my post--
Quote:
but there is some real B.S. in the story.


Never tried to imply MTS will be in business much longer. Thats why I titled this as "might have a horse shoe". I personally don't think MTS has any buses there built and ready to go from the NJT order. I know it was said one of the NJT MTS's is running at Foxwoods but it one of the original 5 NJT had received.

Do you think there were any (not counting the 5 that were rejected) buses built for NJT before the shutdown?
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ripta42
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
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Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RTS_04 wrote:
Wonder how much that's true. NJT's never stated exactly why the MTS business fell through...

I thought the reason was MTS's lack of financial backing. Wasn't the order cancelled well before the bridge collapse? Also, if the federal funding for new buses was pulled, how are they paying for the NABIs?

Quote:
Anyone notice that these two supposed "new contracts" that MTS has or may get are also some of the last clients Nova had? I seem to remember both Texas A&M and Beaumont getting coaches between 2001 and 2002.


Texas A&M received 21 coaches in 2001. I couldn't find anything for Beaumont.
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RTS_04




Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ripta42 wrote:
RTS_04 wrote:
Wonder how much that's true. NJT's never stated exactly why the MTS business fell through...

I thought the reason was MTS's lack of financial backing. Wasn't the order cancelled well before the bridge collapse? Also, if the federal funding for new buses was pulled, how are they paying for the NABIs?

Quote:
Anyone notice that these two supposed "new contracts" that MTS has or may get are also some of the last clients Nova had? I seem to remember both Texas A&M and Beaumont getting coaches between 2001 and 2002.


Texas A&M received 21 coaches in 2001. I couldn't find anything for Beaumont.


You're right, I mispoke. Lubbock and some other smaller Texan properties got some of the last RTS'.

Interestingly, I had once read that a company in El Paso was reaaaaal close to buying the whole RTS operation in Roswell from Nova around 2002-2003. Wonder what happened to make this deal sour...
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KCRam3500




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Lake Hopatcong NJ

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw that article and immediately caught that "spin" about diversion of federal funding. The NJT contract was canceled in April, the bridge collapse was in August. Unless someone had a crystal bball and saw the bridge collapse in a "vision", that's about as false as anything I've heard in a long time.

MTS should politely bow out. All the major manufacturers have big money behind them (large manufacturer or investment firm), or in Gillig's case, they focus on specific clientele and don't bite off more than they can chew. It was a nice try, but NJT gave them a shot at being a major player and they choked.

Let's let the RTS retire as the good bus it was, and move forward. (Waiting patiently for the book, Evan - have the pre-order at Amazon!)
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GBL Rebel
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to something I seen on the other board, the Texas order is now down the toilet. I think they lost that horse shoe!!
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RTS_04




Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. Company director still claims they've got a few orders "in the works," but when you can't even do the smaller orders, there's no hope. They're done...
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DE60LF




Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I have heard somwhere that MTS had a contract with Santa Fe Trails of Santa Fe, New Mexico. Santa Fe Trails currently operates an all-CNG fleet of 30-foot Blue Bird transit buses.

I wonder if these buses that Santa Fe plans on ordering would be CNG-powered. Santa Fe's Blue Birds are still fairly young as they were delievered in 2001. I assume this order would primarily be used for growth rather than a replacement. For a city the size of Santa Fe, Gillig would be the ideal choice, however, since Gillig does not manufacture CNG buses, they would have to go with New Flyer, Orion, or NABI. They could also go with Blue Bird again and order the Ultra LF low floor bus, which is available in CNG.
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GBL Rebel
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GBL Rebel wrote:
According to something I seen on the other board, the Texas order is now down the toilet. I think they lost that horse shoe!!


I just realized I screwed this one up a bit. The Texas A&M order was not the one down the toilet, which is what I started this subject about--SORRY!

The Beaumont Texas order is the one that got dumped. I ASSUMED all the Texas stuff was the same-- I now know otherwise.
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John Wayne




Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:00 pm    Post subject: Millennium up and running Reply with quote

Just an update, Millennium has sold the 25 NJT buses to Texas A&M University. Their shops are up and running having delivered all but a few. There is also another large over seas order that will follow this.

So things are not so bad. It is probaly touch and go but the owners appear to be committed to making that company viable come hell or high water. If you want to see some new RTS buses, go to College Station, that's apparently the place to see them.
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Mr. Transit




Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main reason MTS is still in business is that they have deversified their
business operations. It you do a Google search on them, you're find a business profile on Goliath Company Profile, updated on April 16th. It mentions that--Primary SIC: Motor Vehicles and Car Bodies, Primary NAICS: Automobile Manufacturing. Description: Manufacturing: Assembles motor vehicle chassis. So it seems like they won't be building too many more buses here in the US, if at all.
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DE60LF




Joined: 03 Oct 2007
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Location: Albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They need to get that RTS Extreme low-floor out the door in order to be really competitive. While they are making money for overseas purchases of the RTS Legend, in truth, most American transit authorities want low floor buses. In addition to having a low-floor product, a diesel-electric hybrid model might also make them more competitive.
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Mr. Transit




Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can you talk about MTS's low floor extreme model, when they probably don't have the money to send any sales reps to the APTA Transit Conference and Expo in October? I've seen no indications that they'll be there, so how can you expect them to sell any? Also, how does anybody know for sure, that they're making any money overseas?
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John Wayne




Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Folks from TAMU said they prefer the high floor due to less expense fixing the bus in accidents as well as safer for students. They run a shadow paratransit service so low floor is not an issue for them. I would guess they are not the only ones that see it this way. It is also my understanding is that the overseas order is a big one that will keep the plant busy for a long period. This may be why they dont see the need to show up at APTA, who knows?

I was also told their low floor model is being tested at Altuna as we speak and they feel it will be ready to offer for sale within a year. It has been touch and go due to managerial issues, but they are reorganized and are well capitalized for now. Nothing's certain, but my gut feeling knowing who the owner is, is that they are going to crawl out of this and be successful. Not over nght, but they will do it. Current capital markets are not great in the US and foreign purchases are a very smart way to go right now. By the time the low floor is ready, captial in the US will be more readily available as I think the fuel situation will push transit systems to grow more and more. I am feel very positive about their future.
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