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Millennium Transit

 
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DE60LF




Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:56 pm    Post subject: Millennium Transit Reply with quote

Millennium Transit

Last edited by DE60LF on Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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RailBus63
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, Millennium's only hope is to find (or get bought out by) a big investor or company with deep pockets. Your comments are right on the money - the demand for a high-floor transit bus is disappearing and they absolutely will need a low-floor bus to compete. After the NJ Transit debacle, though, who is going to want to award them a big contract?

The onus is only Millennium to prove to the market that they can do this, but I don't see how this is going to happen without some serious bucks behind them. They would likely have to underbid NFI, Orion and Gillig to win some orders and prove themselves.
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KCRam3500




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Lake Hopatcong NJ

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they can't even pull off the Beaumont order, then MTS needs to close down. Bus manufacturing is a mean business. You have to buy expensive components and pay the labor... diesel engines alone are well into 5 figures each. And the most important part... buses aren't paid for until they're delivered. This essentially means a manufacturer has to be financially able to build buses before they ever sell any. MTS forgot that - you can't supply $94 million worth of buses if you can't afford to build them prior to getting paid.

The Beaumont order wasn't that big. If they are still having trouble, that means the component suppliers want their money up front before they ship. And after the NJT contract, can you blame Meritor for wanting to be paid immediately for their axles, or Allison for the transmissions, or Cummins/Caterpillar/Detroit for the engines? And if suppliers aren't willing to give you "credit" and wait til you get paid, you're dead as a business.
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boys!

I think we're all spinning our wheels (not a pun) with this whole resurrection of any RTS including an LF version! - forget it, it's not going to happen!

MTS hasn't got a chance of surviving at this point, and I think this is a closed case.

The RTS must now be relegated to its place in history with the many great old buses that preceeded it.

It's a sad commentary, but a fact of life!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Gillig, New Flyer, Orion and NABI battling it out, plus Nova taking a significant chunk of the Canadian orders and MCI the leader in the suburban coach market, there is an excess of bus building capacity in North America.

Millennium's only shot probably would have been if they had bought the RTS design around 2000 or so, before Nova effectively killed it.
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GBL Rebel
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There might be one way for MTS to stay alive, if the feds require more percentage of the bus produced in USA. This would mean MCI, Orion and who ever else builds the frame in Canada has to shift the work over the border or MTS and Gillig might be getting a bit busy.
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Such a change would have to take place over a period of years - it wouldn't be fair to change the rules suddenly on New Flyer, Orion and NABI after they've made investments in other countries.
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KCRam3500




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: Lake Hopatcong NJ

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Supposedly, the FTA American content revision was corrected back to the previous rule as far as body shells. That would have affected New Flyer, Orion, NABI, and MCI. NABI shells are still made in Hungary, the rest come from Canada.
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GBL Rebel
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KCRam3500 wrote:
Supposedly, the FTA American content revision was corrected back to the previous rule as far as body shells. That would have affected New Flyer, Orion, NABI, and MCI. NABI shells are still made in Hungary, the rest come from Canada.


There goes MTS's horse shoe for staying in business then. I think we can agree that the shell content rule would have changed the playing field.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A personal comment;

I don't think the government is in any shape right now to take on transit bus specifications again.

Sure, I'd love to see buses made the old fashioned way right here on U.S. soil but I'm afraid economics just won't let that happen - at least not in our lifetime!

It too bad, because we made the best buses in the world!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY
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RTS_04




Joined: 26 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not looking promising...

http://www.krqe.com/global/story.asp?s=7166640

For what it's worth, that white bus shown in the story isn't a new bus by MTS. Rather, that's the NovaBUS pilot for what would have been Dallas DART's order for RTS suburbans. NABI ended up picking this business up.

(Ring any bells? Failed RTS orders picked up by NABI? Hmmm...)

Quote:

Roswell company's bus deal questioned

Oct 3, 2007 10:47 PM

ROSWELL, N. M. - A Texas publication reports that Millennium Bus Transit from Roswell has not delivered on a major contract with the city of Beaumont.

The article claims that Millennium Transit made a bid to build buses for the Texas city but, after two years, Beaumont still hasn't seen any buses.

The article also reported Beaumont is now considering canceling the $6 million contract with the Roswell bus company. The company denies that.

"To me it's not really that frustrating because basically ever since that time they've told us they were going to give us the buses by the end of this year," Beaumont's transit manager William Munson said. "That's always been the plan, so as far as I'm concerned, they're still on schedule."

The mayor of Roswell said he's sure Millennium will make good on the Beaumont buses.

"We're certainly going to hang in there with them like we would any business and certainly hope to see Millennium get back to the huge employer they once were," Mayor Sam LaGrone said. "So we're confident."

The plan is for Millennium to deliver the buses by Dec. 15. If that doesn't happen, Beaumont's city manger said he will then consider canceling the order.

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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is MTS another 'Area 51'?

Is it possible that no one in the outside world knows what's going on within the walls of this company.

It's now almost November, and if there's any kind of an order 'in the works' for Beaumont that is scheduled for delivery by December 15th. you would at least think that some outsider would see some kind of forward movement in the factory.

You would also think that some idiot from Beaumont would be checking on the progress!

I mean, who is fooling whom here?

My thought is that Beaumont would have a better chance of ordering buses from NIMCO!

Give me a break!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY
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montag




Joined: 16 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:50 pm    Post subject: Area 51? Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Is MTS another 'Area 51'?

Is it possible that no one in the outside world knows what's going on within the walls of this company.



In casual conversations with people there, the problem seems to be manpower (and probably problems with money, behind that, but no one's saying). Very, very small staff working these days.


Quote:
It's now almost November, and if there's any kind of an order 'in the works' for Beaumont that is scheduled for delivery by December 15th. you would at least think that some outsider would see some kind of forward movement in the factory.

You would also think that some idiot from Beaumont would be checking on the progress!



This is a big order for Beaumont, but a small order in the bus business. It's typical for smaller operations not to send their own resident inspector. They don't have the money or the manpower for that. They go over the buses when they arrive on the property, so, Beaumont is likely just waiting for them to arrive.


Quote:
I mean, who is fooling whom here?

Give me a break!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY



Again, it may come down to money. There were about two dozen buses on the production line in varying stages of completion when the NJT order was canceled. Last I heard, there was some talk about selling those to an independent operator. They may need to finish off those to gain the money to do the Beaumont order.

They can't simply divert NJT production to Beaumont because NJT's buses were diesel CAT-9s, while Beaumont is reported to be John Deere CNG-powered.

There are small operators out there who are happy with high-floor RTS-bodied buses (Pueblo would like to order a couple more, I've read), but that sort of order is going to be the limit of their business until they can afford to tool up the LF they've designed.
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ripta42
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Area 51? Reply with quote

montag wrote:
There were about two dozen buses on the production line in varying stages of completion when the NJT order was canceled. Last I heard, there was some talk about selling those to an independent operator. They may need to finish off those to gain the money to do the Beaumont order.


In another discussion, it was said that Texas A&M might be picking up the NJ Transit buses.
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