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'Surface # 601 Mystery' (edited)

 
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:07 am    Post subject: 'Surface # 601 Mystery' (edited) Reply with quote

Pictured below is Surface Transportation System # 601 - a prewar Mack Model 'CM'.

In my original essay I indicated that there was only one problem; which was that according to my complete prewar Mack production list, this bus did not exist!

It appeared in the records of Mack that all prewar CM's ordered by the company, and they only purchased CM's, carried only four digit fleet numbers.

However, a subsequent study has revealed that the four digit numbers in the listing were serial and not fleet assignments.

A roster of the Surface CM's elsewhere in this forum will be edited to reflect the actual facts.

Oh, by the way; notice the 'pristine' condition this bus is in (pristine, at least, for Surface!).

Photo from Joe Testagrose Collection, and borrowed from BT3 Gallery for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY



Last edited by Mr. Linsky on Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting photo, Mr. Linsky. I wouldn't have a clue about the bus's number but don't you think it would have been renumbered after having been on the property as long as this one was at the time of the photo? Yeah, it doesn't look too bad. Almost as nice as some of Ave. B & E. Broadway's Macks! Laughing
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

Nothing (even Surface) could come near the shape the average Avenue 'B' was in!

For the record and as a roster for the time frame, I will list all Surface Mack 'CM' deliveries below;

CM4D (Diesel) Serial # 1018 to 1027 Delivered September 1939

CM4D (Diesel) Serial # 1037 to 1046 Delivered December 1940

CM4D (Diesel) Serial # 1047 to 1076 Delivered June 1941

CM4D (Diesel) Serial # 1077 to 1086 Delivered July 1941

CM4D (Diesel) Serial # 1087 to 1236 Delivered August 1942

Pictured below is another Surface 600 # 645.

Note that no fleet numbers accompanied the production list.

Photo courtesy of BustalkIII Photo Gallery.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY



Last edited by Mr. Linsky on Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr. Linsky
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way;

The BusTalkIII Gallery is becoming better and better, and I believe the picture below has to be among the best finds yet!

It is prewar Surface Transportation and appears to be a Twin Coach similar but smaller than those used by both North Shore Bus Company and Jamaica Buses.

Unfortunately, the fleet number is hardly visible but is in the 3000 range.

This picture must have been taken sometime after the war because the background Dodge car is a 1946/47/48 model.

This opens new vistas concerning 1930's Surface equipment.

Photo borrowed from BusTalkIII collection for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY



Last edited by Mr. Linsky on Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cyberider




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds like a good guess, Mr. Linsky, with a second 600 numbered CM showing up. Maybe we can find more through other photos.

Old Look 1171 certainly looks nice. Maybe it was almost brand new. This is a nice photo that I've admired for several years since I first saw it.
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ripta42
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Unfortunately, the fleet number is hardly visible but is in the 3000 range.

The number is 3827.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cyberider wrote:
That sounds like a good guess, Mr. Linsky, with a second 600 numbered CM showing up. Maybe we can find more through other photos.

Old Look 1171 certainly looks nice. Maybe it was almost brand new. This is a nice photo that I've admired for several years since I first saw it.


Dave,

I believe Surface 1171 is brand new in the picture (there isn't a scratch on it - yet!).

1171, a GM TD 4506, was part of a 97 bus order (ser# 1104 to 1200) fleet # 1100 to 1196 delivered to Surface in November of 1946.

Serial # 1200 was the last 4506 ever manufactured.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
By the way;

The BusTalkIII Gallery is becoming better and better, and I believe the picture below has to be among the best finds yet!

It is prewar Surface Transportation and appears to be a Twin Coach similar but smaller than those used by both North Shore Bus Company and Jamaica Buses.

Unfortunately, the fleet number is hardly visible but is in the 3000 range.

This picture must have been taken sometime after the war because the background Dodge car is a 1946/47/48 model.

This opens new vistas concerning 1930's Surface equipment.

Photo borrowed from BusTalkIII collection for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY



Looks like I was correct when I said the above bus was a Twin Coach.

Pictured below is a reasoable facsimile in the form of a 1937 Twin Coach Model 23R originally operated by the Winnipeg Electric Company in Canada.

This bus has been completely restored and is maintained by the Manitoba Transit Heritage Association.

Picture courtesy of the Heritage Association.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY

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Cyberider




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a beautiful restoration. Those pre-war Twins were certainly ugly ducklings. I always thought it was amazing how they came out with such a nice looking bus after the war.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cyberider wrote:
That's a beautiful restoration. Those pre-war Twins were certainly ugly ducklings. I always thought it was amazing how they came out with such a nice looking bus after the war.


Dave,

I agree - they are something else to look at!

What really does the trick is the fact that the rear wheels seem to extend beyond the actual rear of the bus - horrible design - and greatly improved later on.

These 23 R's were manufactured basically unchanged in several different lengths throughout the thirties.

There's only one bus that I can think of that's uglier and you'll find it on page 21 of MCA March-April 1974 (Mack) and that's the original version of the 'CW' with the 'bustle' on the back.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY
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Cyberider




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, the extreme rear position of the rear axle gives them an ungainly appearance. Maybe it didn't look as bad then as it does now. I got a kick out of the Mack CW with the bustle. Almost looks like a rumble seat for the engine. Laughing
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:18 pm    Post subject: 'This Just In' Reply with quote

'This Just In'

I have received from the curator of the Mack Truck Museum in Allentown Pennsylvania the fleet numbers for the prewar Mack Model CM's of Surface Transportation System as follows;

CM4D (Diesel) ser# 1018 to 1027 Fleet # 600 to 609 Del. 9/39

CM4D (Diesel) ser# 1037 to 1046 Fleet # 626 to 635 Del. 12/40

CM4D (Diesel) ser # 1047 to 1076 Fleet# missing Del. 6/41

CM4D (Diesel) ser # 1077 to 1086 Fleet # 656 to 665 Del. 7/41

CM4D (Diesel) ser # 1087 to 1106 Fleet # 500 to 519 Del. 8/42

Note; 500 to 519 were changed to corresponding 800 numbers before delivery.

Special Note; Ser #'s 1107 through 1236 for buses 474 to 499, 520 to 599 and 676 to 699 were diverted to the U.S. Navy.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY
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