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'Bee Line History & Vintage White Buses In General'
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Free-transfer



Age: 64
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although I've never ridden on one, the interior, especially the
operators area, looked very impressive. Somebody once posted
a beautiful photo on usenet of a DC Transit White 798 in Orange
and Blue...wished I have saved it. Anyway, here's one I found in color.
(images borrowed for educational use only)



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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Free-transfer,

Thanks for sharing.

Great shot of what I assume is probably the famous White '798' (I'm not a White expert).

It also appears as though both the White and the GM TDH 4509 or 12 standing next to it are preserved coaches merely because the bus across the way (far left) looks like something from the eighties or nineties.

The fare box picture is also very interesting starting with the fare box itself which is a Johnson Model 'D' electrified (same model the New York City TS used for many years).

This picture was taken sometime in the late forties to early fifties as noted by the vintages of the cars that can be seen through the windshield.

The bus has me stumped because while the dashboard resembles that of a GM Old Look the windshield configuration and the thickness of the divider between the two plates does not.

It also appears that there may be other buses in the reflection of the White's bumper but too vague to make out.

Again, thanks for sharing.

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica & Arverne, NY
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the forties and fifties, and possibly long before that, the Post Office Department found that the only practical way to get basic postal services to the then most remote parts of the country was by the use of over the road mobile post offices.

To some degree the department still utilizes the principle but in a less sophisticated way and more for public relations.

Pictured below are examples of the sophistication in the form of a 1941 custom built White bus model 798 and the first of a number delivered to the Post Office Department starting in that year.

This particular bus served well until its decommissioning in 1961 and then found its way to the Smithsonian Institution in Washington to become a permanent exhibit.

But that last leg of the trip to the museum wasn't as easy as it sounded, and turned out to be a very funny story!

At the time that it was rumored that the department was going to pick up the bus from where ever it was to decommission and sell it, some postal worker (presumably someone who had sentimental attachment to the coach) began to hide it in a succession of postal garages to prevent it from being discarded as surplus.

Of course, the government eventually did find it and it was sold to the American Postal Worker's Union who then donated it to the Smithsonian and paid for its refurbishment.

Notice the sedan front door which was prevalent on suburban coaches of the era, and the specially made shortened rear door probably for taking on mail sacks as did rail road mail cars.

In the bottom interior shot showing the mail being sorted, notice that one worker carries a gun. It was mandatory years ago that all 'special delivery' mail be carried by armed personnel (I really don't think they do that any more!).

The Smithonian occasionally lends this bus to transportation museums around the country for display.

Photos borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica & Arverne, NY

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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pictured below is Chicago Surface Lines # 3407 - a 1944 White Motor Company Model '798' and preserved at the Illinois Railway Museum in Union Illinois.

This bus was obviously originally purchased with the permission the Office of Defense Transportation under wartime rules.

Some statistics; seats; 44, weight; 19,315 lbs, length; 35 feet, transmission; manual.

Photo taken October 12th. 2002.

Photo borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica & Arverne, NY

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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pictured below is the famous White amidships mounted 12 cylinder 'Pancake' engine that developed 210 horsepower and was standard equipment on the maker's heaviest buses.

While it looked and sounded more like an aircraft or submarine engine, and was tucked in tightly under the floor boards, it did the job pretty well.

Unfortunately, as these engines aged, they became prone to seal leaks which caused fumes to escape to the passenger compartment, and special fume eliminators were used but with little success.

Photo borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica & Arverne, NY

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Free-transfer



Age: 64
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Linsky,

The farebox is mounted in a White 798!

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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Free-transfer,

I know that's what Johnson says, and the more I look at it, the more the windshield does slope down ala the White.

But what had me a little hesitant was the width of the center windshield divider which in no way reflects what you see on the outside of a White.

I knew it wasn't GM because all GM 'Old Look' windshield sections are encased in rubber both sides.

Thanks for the heads up.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:01 am    Post subject: Re: 'Bee Line History & Vintage White Buses In General' Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
THE BUSES AND HISTORY OF BEE LINE, INC (LONG ISLAND)


ROSTER;

PRESERVED COACHES;

1930 ACF Model S-85-2-001 Fleet # 100 Preserved by Harry Zerrenner, New York
1931 ACF Model P-64-901-040 Fleet # 135 Preserved by Jack Seidler, Hyde Park, New York
1941 ACF Model 36S-379 Fleet # 234 Preseved by Trolley Valhalla, Dublin, Pa.
1944 White Model 798 (ser# 302092) Fleet # 315 Preserved by Jack Seidler, Hyde Park, New York
1944 White Model 798 (ser# 302101) Fleet # 324 Preserved by Jack Seidler, Hyde Park, New York
1956 GM Model TDH 4512 (ser# 1683) Fleet # 564 Preserved by Jack Seidler, Hyde Park, New York
1951 Mack C-45-DT (ser# 5356 and 5360) Fleet # 514 and 518 Preserved by Trolley Valhalla, Dublin, Pa.

PURCHASED COACHES;

ACF;

S-85-2-001 Fleet # 100 Delivered 1930 (part of an unknown order)
P-64-901-040 Fleet # 135 Delivered 1931 (part of an unknown order)
36S-379 Fleet # 234 (part of an unknown order)

MACK;

C-45-DT (ser# 5342 TO 5361) Fleet # 500 to 519 Delivered 1951
C-49-DT New Look Front End (ser # 2334 to 2338) Fleet # 620 to 624 Delivered July 1959

WHITE;

1944 Model 728 (ser# ranging from 302077 to 302101) Fleet # ranging from 300 to 324

FLXIBLE;

FD6V-401-7 (SER# 35021) Fleet # 35021 (Demo) Delivery date unknown

GM;

TDH 3610 (ser# 0186 to 0200) Fleet # 400 to 414 Delivered January 1947

TDH 4517 (ser# 0069 Demo) Fleet # 565 Delivered April 1960
TDH 4517 (ser# 1280 to 1284) Fleet # 566 to 570 Delivered October 1961

TDH 4509 (ser# 2419 to 2428) Fleet # 530 to 539 Delivered April 1953

TDH 4512 (ser# 0027 to 0036) Fleet # 540 to 549 Delivered October 1953 Note; # 540 & 542 to Van Buren Bus Company (NJ) 1967.
TDH 4512 (ser# 0901 to 0910) Fleet # 550 to 559 Delivered February 1955
TDH 4512 (ser# 1679 to 1683) Fleet # 560 to 564 Delivered September 1956

TDH 5106 (ser# 1365 to 1369) Fleet # 610 to 614 Delivered April 1958
TDH 5106 (ser# 1599 to 1603) Fleet # 615 to 619 Delivered March 1959

TDH 5302 (ser# 0335 to 0344) Fleet # 625 to 634 Delivered February 1961
TDH 5302 (ser# 0583 to 0592) Fleet # 635 to 644 Delivered April 1962

TDH 5304 (ser# 0076 to 0080) Fleet # 645 to 649 Delivered April 1963
TDH 5304 (ser# 0346 to 0350) Fleet # 650 to 654 Delivered April 1964
TDH 5304 (ser# 0957 to 0961) Fleet # 655 to 669 Delivered November 1965
TDH 5304 (ser# 1038 to 1042) Fleet # 670 to 674 Delivered April 1966

T6H 5306 (ser# 0276 to 0280) Fleet # 689 to 693 Delivered December 1969

T8H 5306 (ser# 0001 to 0004) Fleet # 685 to 688 Delivered June 1969

SDM 5302 (ser# 0938) Fleet # 680 Delivered May 1967

HISTORY;

From its inception in 1922 Bee Line, Inc. of Nassau County was destined, at least for a time, to be a major player in the reformation of transit bus franchising in neighboring Queens.

Because of public complaints of chaotic and very sporadic services being rendered by hoards of ‘wildcat’ operators in the borough in the early thirties, then Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia decided to break the county up into four franchised zones;. Zone ‘A’ would encompass Woodside (awarded to Triboro Coach Corporation), Zone ‘B’ for Flushing (awarded to North Shore Bus Company), Zone ‘C’ south and west of Jamaica (awarded to Green Bus Lines, Inc.), and Zone ‘D’ Jamaica proper (awarded to Bee Line, Inc.).

Each of the awarded companies had absorbed enough routes and had sufficient equipment and manpower to meet the requirements of the franchise agreements.

However, Bee Line’s term of office so to speak was short lived and ended almost before it began due to its ongoing internal labor problems, disputes with the city and a poorly maintained fleet (North Shore stepped in to fill the gap).

Nevertheless, Bee Line did maintain feeder routes from Nassau to Jamaica and eventually went on to acquire the assets of Rockville Centre Bus Corporation, Utilities Lines, Inc. and Stage Coach Lines before it was taken over by the Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority in the early seventies.

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica & Arverne, NY

See a preserved ACF coach below.

Photo borrowed from Bus Talk III Gallery for educational purposes only.



This just in;

Further research into Mack prewar production records discloses that Bee Line did buy four additional buses that do not appear in the all time roster above, which should be adended as follows;

MACK;

RB18 (ser# 1074 to 1077) Fleet #'s unknown Delivered April 1942

Note; aside from one further order of Whites in 1944, these buses may have heralded the beginning of Bee Line's relationship with Mack.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY
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Robert Carroll



Age: 90
Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 35
Location: Jamaica,Baldwin,N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GM TD3610 delivered in 1947 had Fruit Salad paint job.not the usual red.
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MaBSTOA 15



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Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 1056

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:34 pm    Post subject: Bee Line TDH-4517 Demo Reply with quote

The TDH-4517, serial 069 was a GM demo originally intended for Havana, Cuba's Omnibus Aliados (Allied Omnibus Cooperative).

In 1959 the Cuban company made a corporate decision to buy only GM 45 passenger buses as the official fleet. Prior to this decision about 100 TDH-4512s were purchased brand new from Pontiac and several used TDH-4509s.

Up to that point in time, some 500+ TDH-3612/3714 were the backbone of the fleet.
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Robert Carroll



Age: 90
Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Posts: 35
Location: Jamaica,Baldwin,N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:51 pm    Post subject: Queens Village Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
The focus of the picture below is not on the B.O.T. GM 4507 # 2048 (to be highlighted under Manufacturers) but on the very interesting coach in the background which escaped my notice originally.

It is Bee Line # 315 - a 1944 White model 798 (ser# 302092) signed for the subway in Jamaica (probably taken in Queens Village).

# 315 was part of a twenty-five bus order and, because it was war time, would have had to have been purchased with the permission of the Defense Department.

This bus has been preserved by a private owner in upstate New York (see Bee Line Roster).

Photo courtesy of Vincent A. Syrek - GMOldLookBus

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica & Arverne, NY

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