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October 31st, 1956...Farewell to Brooklyn's streetcars/etc.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:07 pm    Post subject: October 31st, 1956...Farewell to Brooklyn's streetcars/etc. Reply with quote

........the end of a long and colorful era....... Crying or Very sad

https://www.newdavesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt736.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix.com)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

......a little more than six years prior to the last runs of Brooklyn's remaining streetcars, the last cars traveled over the Brooklyn Bridge from Park Row in Manhattan.

The year following the last run of Brooklyn's PCC's, the beloved Brooklyn Dodgers (originally the "Trolley Dodgers") played their last game at the hallowed Ebbets Field.

The famed "Steeplechase" closed at Coney Island in the mid 1960's.

In 1969, the very last prewar BMT cars (the fabled "Standards") were retired, and, the iconic Myrtle Avenue El was closed down.

One elderly Flatbush native once remarked: ".....it was bad enough when the Dodgers left for Los Angeles, but Brooklyn ain't Brooklyn without the streetcars and the old BMT trains......."

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had Brooklyn's streetcars survived past 1956......

IMHO, I have the feeling that, had Brooklyn's streetcar network (or rather, what remained of it in 1956) it might have survived to the present day, albiet in modern form.

Would the MTA have purchased second-hand PCC's in later years, as was the case in Philadelphia?

Might have the MTA ordered new KAWASAKI light rail cars in the early 1980's, possibly keeping some PCC's for use on a "heritage" line, or for fan excursions?

Too, suppose the B&QT trolleybuses had continued in service past 1960; would they have been eventually replaced by diesel buses, or, perhaps replaced with new equipment, as was the case in Philadelphia and Boston?

Alas, we'll never know, but can only speculate......

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You talk speculations.
In late 1940, the cessation of service on the Hoboken trestle miffed me, grieved me terribly. Had someone speculated that articulated cars would crawl and loop from the south side of Hoboken Terminal to a fast route along the base of the palisades all the way to the steam-train tunnel, I would not have believed it. When I rode that new line, I was thrilled!
---
As for future tramways in Brooklyn, I cannot speculate. I urge the proponents to ride B61 & B62, copying transit times and bus loadings. Listing and timing the traffic signals would be important in any research. Cost: one fare, one notebook, one pen.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
You talk speculations.
In late 1940, the cessation of service on the Hoboken trestle miffed me, grieved me terribly. Had someone speculated that articulated cars would crawl and loop from the south side of Hoboken Terminal to a fast route along the base of the palisades all the way to the steam-train tunnel, I would not have believed it. When I rode that new line, I was thrilled!
---
As for future tramways in Brooklyn, I cannot speculate. I urge the proponents to ride B61 & B62, copying transit times and bus loadings. Listing and timing the traffic signals would be important in any research. Cost: one fare, one notebook, one pen.


Joe:

When the PS streetcars utilized the El (until August, 1949), though there were block signals en route, they ran swiftly (with no traffic issues) from Palisades Avenue down to the DL&W Terminal.

The replacement buses had to utilize convoluted routings (at best) to reach the terminal, and, also, had to sift their way through motor traffic.

This massive trestle was also noteworthy as being the longest and highest trolley trestle in the world.

Travel time was now increased; likewise, think of much the same situation when PS replaced the subway-surface streetcars with buses in Newark; the streetcars, once on City Subway rails, had no traffic to slow them down, nor traffic signals.

The buses now took longer to reach downtown Newark than the subway streetcars.

You mentioned the "steam train tunnel" in the Palisades; to this day, if you look up from the ferry terminal complex in Weehawken (site of the old West Shore Terminal) you will see what appears to be a large tunnel archway beneath the apartment buildings.

Until the early 1890's, a large (and quite lavishly furnished) passenger elevator (roughly about the size of a streetcar) carried passengers debarking from the ferries up to a station that was located at the end of a long steel trestle.

These trains ran through where the aforementioned archway was, and, at one point, turned north, and ran all the way up to Fort Lee ("PALISADES JUNCTION" later became the busiest streetcar transfer point on PS's BERGEN Division)

After electric streetcars arrived, this railroad was abandoned, and the elevators and trestle was demolished.

Only the most astute of area historians are aware that these huge elevators and the conncting trains once operated in Hudson County......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:46 pm; edited 4 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

The following should be of interest*......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hudson_County_Railway

*There are photos of the ex-PS trolley power station on Palisade Avenue, Jersey City (at the foot of the El), as well as the old Union City carbarns**, used by NJT until the early 1990's.

There is also an old drawing showing the Weehawken passenger elevators and trestle.....

"NYO"

**The photo of the old Union City carbarns (now a DPW facility) is looking northeast on Bergenline Avenue; the eastern facade fronts New York Avenue.


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dug this page out of my files.......

www.cable-car-guy.com/html/ccnynj.html#nhcry
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.....there was also the "wagon lifts" in Weehawken and Jersey City Heights; the latter lasted into the 1930's (Mom remembered it very well as a girl, back in the 1920's)

Interestingly, PSNJ operated the Jersey City-Hoboken lift in more modern times.

This lift originally carried horse-drawn streetcars, in the years prior to the introduction of electric trolleys; in later years, it also carried early motor trucks.

There were were two "cars" (basically railed-in platforms) that ran side-by-side, one ascending while the other descended.

Interestingly, in Cincinnati, a similar lift once carried streetcars and trolley buses.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another great page from my files, showing the wagon lift and the streetcars in Jersey City Heights; the streetcars running along Hillside Avenue were part of PS's "White Line", which went to rubber in the 1930's.

It is also interesting to note that, as built, PSNJ's Hoboken "El" was originally a "cable road", prior to electric streetcars.......

www.maggieblanck.com/Hoboken/El.html
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More rare views and history*.......

www.streettotheleft.weebly.com/blog/weehawken-wagon-lift

*Top photo shows an ASV on the Pershing Road viaduct in Weehawken, about to enter the forecourt of the West Shore ferry terminal.........
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N4 Jamaica




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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you implying that double wire hung over Pershing Road?
Joe
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
Are you implying that double wire hung over Pershing Road?
Joe


Joe:

Yes, ASV's ran down to the West Shore terminal (along with buses and streetcars) until 1948.

These ASV's were based out of the UNION CITY garage/carbarns.

At the crest of Pershing Road, the ASV wires crossed over Boulevard East, and spanned 48th St.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

Here is a 1930's photo showing one of the older model YELLOW buses converted to ASV configuration, leaving the West Shore terminal.

Note the inbound PS buses on the left, and the streetcars on the right.

Also, note the large archway in the side of the cliff; this was where the steam trains that connected with the passenger elevators at the ferry terminal ran through.......

https://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_2010_newark_weehawkenferryterm_bv.htm

(courtesy: trolleybuses.net)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look closely on the left in this rare 1930's photo of an inbound PSNJ "UNION CITY" line car (sporting De Luxe paint) near the Weehawken ferry terminal; you can make out the brackets that supported the ASV wires over Pershing Road*.....

https://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct136.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)

*At the West Shore Terminal at Weehawken, Pershing Road was the only access for ASV's (also buses); the ASV's (and buses) of various routes heading for the DL&W terminal in Hoboken, however, utilized Paterson Plank Road, the 14th St. viaduct (since replaced), Washington St., and Willow Avenue.


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:07 am; edited 2 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The absence of ASV wires on Pershing Road (to the right of the outbound "UNION CITY" line streetcar in this photo) tells us that this picture was snapped sometime between the 1948 removal of ASV service and the end of all HUDSON Division streetcars, which took place in August, 1949.....

https://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct152.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)
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