BusTalk Forum Index BusTalk
A Community Discussing Buses and Bus Operations Worldwide!
 
 BusTalk MainBusTalk Main FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups BusTalk GalleriesBusTalk Galleries   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

October 31st, 1956...Farewell to Brooklyn's streetcars/etc.
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> Surface Transit - Eastern United States
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Few photos exist of the "#21" ASV route, which ran between the Hoboken Terminal and Palisades Junction, Fort Lee; this line was unique in that it was the only PS line using ASV's to enter Bergen County.

This older model ASV is seen here on Observer Highway in Hoboken, beneath the PSNJ elevated, just prior to arriving at the DL&W/H&M terminal.......

https://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_037_newark_bv.htm

(courtesy: trolleybuses.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Memory can be tricky. More than once, Dad brought me on the full length of the Union City route northbound. I recall a derail a short distance before the left-hand curve at the bottom of the hill. The motorman would stop, open the door, and move a heavy tall wooden lever that would throw the derail switch straight. It wasn't a little derail that we sometimes see in railroad yards. This was actually a switch rail on the right that would drop the front truck to the ground. The alternative would be a crunching overturned streetcar on the curve. A similar derail existed at the foot of a hill on #2 car in Yonkers, but it was thrown by a worker sheltered in a cabin.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

You are correct; there indeed was a "derail" at the very location you mentioned.

I know that some riders (like my mother, who was always afraid of heights) never liked the ride on the "UNION CITY" line cars on the private ROW climb up and down to the West Shore Ferry; that there was no guardrail on the uphill side really made for a somewhat scary experience on the outbound "UNION CITY" cars ("PALISADE" line cars also served the West Shore terminal until September, 1938)

Old-time, well-seasoned motormen knew how to "work the brakes" on this steep grade; I've read that, with outbound cars, if the traffic light at Boulevard East and Pershing Road was set against the cars, the motormen had to make sure they had things "locked down" to prevent the car from rolling backwards down the incline, until the light changed.

While the streetcars were still running, there was also a traffic officer's booth at this location......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About 1948, we see Compromise roof car #2808 about to enter the private ROW leading down to the NYCRR West Shore ferry terminal; look closely across Boulevard East and you can see the traffic officer's booth.

The iron pylons on the right, at the start of the grade, are still in place today; when I was last in the area (about 2004) the old line poles along the concrete retaining wall were still in place......

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct151.htm

(courtesy: davesraipix)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just thinking.......

Brooklyn's trolleybuses lasted until 1960, 12 years after the last ASV's pulled down their poles for the final time.

PS replaced the ASV's (the newest of which was only 11 years old) with new 4509's (4509's were also used to replace the last four HUDSON Division streetcar lines in 1949)

In Brooklyn, new Fishbowls (interestingly, these were the first "Tee-Yay" Fishbowls placed into service) replaced the trolley buses (in 1960), which were still quite young for a transit vehicle.

Unlike PS's electric buses, none of the B&QT trolley buses ever went underground, as the ASV's did in Newark......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a few random views of Brooklyn's long-gone trolleybuses......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156124

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156118

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153305

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?157013

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156116

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sands St. near Gold, circa-1950.

Roughly a decade separates the PCC heading towards the camera, and the trolley bus heading away from the camera on the right.

Note the narrow "gun slot" rear windows of the St. Louis-built trolley bus; the rear windows of PS's ASV's were much larger.

It is also interesting to note that the B&QT trolley buses were the first postwar buses in New York to be equipped with florescent lighting; the newest subway cars on the rails at that time, the IND's R-10's, and the IRT's R12/14/15 types were also equipped with florescent lighting.

It would not be until the Fishbowl era began that florescent lighting on all new "Tee-Yay" buses became standard..........

https://www.newdavesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt026.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Brooklyn, the only trolley "elevated" were the approaches to the Stillwell Avenue terminal, used by cars of the Nortons Point line, and the elevated trackage at the Sands St. complex (until 1944)

So busy was the Hoboken Terminal (DL&W trains/ferries, also the H&M tubes) that not only did several pSNJ streetcar routes utilize the multi-track elevated terminal, but other lines arrived and departed at street level.

At the time of the conversion of the remaining HUDSON Division streetcars in 1949, four streetcar lines terminated at Hoboken:

"SUMMIT"

"UNION CITY"

"JACKSON"

"OAKLAND"

On the other hand, by this time, only the "UNION CITY" streetcar line served the West Shore terminal at Weehawken; prior to 1938, several other car lines also served this terminal........

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elderly PSNJ deck roof car #2452 (converted to single-end, one-man operation) is here on what is clearly a fantrip, on the outbound track of the "UNION CITY" line, posing on the grade leading up from the West Shore Ferry in Weehawken (note the photographers in front of the car)

As can be seen here, there was absolutely no protection whatsoever, had a car derailed at this location (a frightening prospect, to be sure); look closely on the right, and you will see the NYC's massive grain elevator, which stood until the early 1960's........

https://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct036.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a rare photo of PS Compromise roof car #3258 (one of the "high" 3200's) about to enter the elevated Hoboken trolley terminal (the DL&W is just out of the photo to the left)

Though the car is operating on an NRHS trip, it is signed "FEDERAL", one of the short-lived "wartime" lines; note, too, that this car retains its original double-ended configuration (there were no loops at either FEDERAL or WESTERN ELECTRIC for turning the cars)

The small brick building on the right was originally used by the H&M in 1908, bringing the new cars down into the tunnels via an elevator; in quite recent years, PATH was still using this facility, using the elevator to carry MOW flat cars to the surface.

https://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct071.htm

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this classic scene from 1941, we see two PS Compromise-roof cars at the first station stop on the El, outbound from the Hoboken Terminal (DL&W facilities can been glimpsed in the right background)

Both cars are indeed resplendent in the new paint scheme that PS had just recently introduced for the remaining streetcars......

https://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct142.htm

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had PS decided to purchase new/secondhand PCC's for the HUDSON Division lines, as well as the Newark subway-surface lines, it would have been interesting to see if these cars lasted in service as long as the venerable City Subway cars.

Back in late 1953/early 1954, when the secondhand (ex-TCRT) PCC's were being used to train City Subway motormen, I am sure it took the old-timers a bit of getting used to, when they had to learn to manipulate the bus-like foot pedals, in place of the long-standard controller and brake handles.......

https://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct144.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My own personal opinion.....

If the MTA and NJT were still operating streetcars (ex-B&QT/PSNJ), I would think that most, if not all, equipment, would now be low-floor articulated LRV's.

I could see some PCC's being retained for fantrips and the like, but I can see the networks in both cities being pretty much totally rehabbed to accomodated new low-floor articulated units.

Recall, also, the many hundreds of PCC-style trams that once operated in many European cities for decades, before the arrival of the new multi-section LRV's.

The Hague was once especially famous for its handsome fleet of PCC's.....

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the Hague PCC's* now resides at the National Capital Trolley Museum.....

www.dctrolley.org/HTM1329.html

*The last operated in revenue service in 1993.


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22282
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The TATRA "T-3"; these units were the first that utilized foot-pedal controls.....

https://trams.fandom.com/wiki/Tatra_T3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> Surface Transit - Eastern United States All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group