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GREYHOUND's West Coast Commuter Runs
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 12170
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recall, also, the "California" bus (GM's 4801) which modernized GREYHOUND's commuter fleet by the early 1950's.

Through the 1960's, GREYHOUND operated Old Looks, MACKS, and Fishbowls on their commuter runs, making for a most interesting fleet......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on the 4801.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_TDH-4801_&_TDM-4801
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 1957, 30 MACK C49DM's were delivered to PACIFIC GREYHOUND; four were delivered to RICHMOND GREYHOUND.

All used MACK END673 diesels.

One of these buses, thankfully, has been saved by the Pacific Bus Museum.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4801 roster (PGL/WGL included)........

https://www.oocities.org/~buslist/4801.html

(courtesy: Bus Rosters On The Net)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an interesting page on "GOLDEN GATE TRANSIT"; in particular, the section "INCEPTION: (1960's)" is of particular interest........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_Transit
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Transit

Some nostalgic photos of Old Looks and Fishbowls are on this page; here; of particular interest is the "FREEWAY TRAIN" (photo taken circa-1966), an ex-TRAILWAYS articulated "Super Golden Eagle" (Indeed, QUITE an impressive commuter coach!) Shocked
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From:

"HOUNDS OF THE ROAD" (Carlton Jackson).......

"......probably the most serious dispute in the War involved PACIFIC GREYHOUND. During negotiations for a new contract, the drivers decided to enforce certain company regulations to the letter......."

".......claiming that the ICC allowed them, in the interest of safety, to limit the number of passengers they permitted to board, the drivers prohibited anyone from standing while the bus was in motion......."

".......this action stranded hundreds of shipyard workers in northern California, resulting in thousands of man-hours of work. This brought a statement from PGL president Frederick W. Ackerman: 'It is apparent that the drivers, through their Union, are taking the ridiculous position that they should not be held responsible for the operation of their bus should they be carrying one standee [or] for violating city, state, or company regulations'......"

".....thi conflict produced a a hurried reaction from the National War Labor Board, which told the drivers that any grievances they had against GREYHOUND would not be considered until the "standee" ban was lifted. The operators held a hastily-called meeting, and decided to comply with the Board's 'suggestion'........"

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From: "ELECTRIC RAILWAY PIONEER" (Harre Demoro):

The following is an excerpt from the "SAVE THE TRAINS (NWP) AND FERRIES LEAGUE", Bulletin No. 1 (December, 1939).........

".......if our plan to save the trains and ferries fail, we face a Greyhound monopoly , with bus service at much higher rates. If rail-ferry services quits, it will be gone forever, and every commuter, every home owner, every citizen of Marin will be the loser......."

"........to keep the railroad on the job, its commute rates must be raised somewhere between present rates and the proposed Greyhound rates......."

Harsh economics forced the NWP to drastically reduce schedules, and operate the electric trains and the connecting ferryboats at 45-minute intervals during the rush hours (recall, in 1939, most commuters worked a five-and-a-half day workweek)

Such scheduling, indeed, was not at all conducive to heavy rush-hour operations.

As noted here earlier, the MU trains and the ferryboats made their last runs in early 1941.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In reviewing this topic, it is interesting to speculate what GREYHOUND commuter operations might be like today, had the company still operated suburban services.

What types of buses might have replaced the Fishbowls and Old Looks, in later years?

Metros?

RTS?

AM GENERALS?

NEOPLAN?

Might GREYHOUND also have ordered additional "Bison" for commuter service?

GREYHOUND had come to realize that commuter services are a constant headache to management, just as the railroads has learned over the decades.

A good chunk of a given fleet would be idle for most of the day, with peak use only for a few hours each weekday, morning and evening.

Too, fares have to be kept fairly reasonable, in order to keep riders from switching over to private autos.

Except, perhaps, on the now-defunct "STRAYHOUND" site, GREYHOUND's long-defunct network of commuter operations, especially in the Bay area, is a chapter of GREYHOUND history that is (IMHO) all too often ignored.

With GREYHOUND, every aspect of its rich and diverse history is indeed worth documenting........and recalling......

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
In reviewing this topic, it is interesting to speculate what GREYHOUND commuter operations might be like today, had the company still operated suburban services.

What types of buses might have replaced the Fishbowls and Old Looks, in later years?

Metros?

RTS?

AM GENERALS?

NEOPLAN?

Might GREYHOUND also have ordered additional "Bison" for commuter service?

GREYHOUND had come to realize that commuter services are a constant headache to management, just as the railroads has learned over the decades.

A good chunk of a given fleet would be idle for most of the day, with peak use only for a few hours each weekday, morning and evening.

Too, fares have to be kept fairly reasonable, in order to keep riders from switching over to private autos.

Except, perhaps, on the now-defunct "STRAYHOUND" site, GREYHOUND's long-defunct network of commuter operations, especially in the Bay area, is a chapter of GREYHOUND history that is (IMHO) all too often ignored.

With GREYHOUND, every aspect of its rich and diverse history is indeed worth documenting........and recalling......

"NYO"


An interesting question. But since we all know how most transit agencies in the last few decades have adopted highway coaches for their commuter service, I think it's fair to guess, Greyhound would have done the same. First with MC-7's, then 8's, 9's, and so on....
And they probably would even carry a restroom, (but keep it locked on very short trips), so that these coaches could be utilized for mainline overloads and/or charters on weekends, when otherwise idle.
They may have purchased a few more two-door transit buses for a few very local routes, that called for that feature. Probably GM's while they were still in production, after that, who knows?
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Agreed.

Recall, how, NJT, beginning in the later 1980's replaced a good chunk of the inherited suburban commuter fleets with new MCI "cruisers" (METROs replaced the transit Fishbowls, though the ex-NJDOT Flex New Looks survived for quite awhile afterwards)

Back in the day, few thought of the day when MCI "highway" type coaches would be "staus quo" for Jersey-area suburban commuter operations.

Commuter buses, back then, were basically single-door versions of the typical transit buses of that era, built bu several builders.

The 4104, and, later, the "Buffalo" began to be used on certain "long haul" commuter runs by the 1960's, and, of course, were quite popular on charter runs........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Commuter" buses of our day........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1509

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1513

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1516

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Your's Truly was MUCH, MUCH younger, GM Old Look suburbans were indeed the backbone of many a "Jersey" commuter carrier's fleet.

Timeless, hard-working vehicles, once so commonplace......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3331

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The versatile "Buffalo", equally at home on both commuter runs and out on "the open road", working intercity runs.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1497

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
The versatile "Buffalo", equally at home on both commuter runs and out on "the open road", working intercity runs.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1497

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)


Ha!
That MC-6 Supercruiser in the background of that picture, reminds me of the ridiculous use of the same, a coach designed to replace the Scenicruiser as Greyhound's "standard bearer" on prestigious transcontinental runs, instead on the San Diego - Chula Vista 15 mile, stop everywhere local.
To add even more insult to injury, they had a farebox installed...
This was because of restriction's on 102" wide coaches on most highway's of the time. So they were used, where legal...
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