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Rails (or lack of) to the airports
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few photos (IND World's Fair line).......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2355

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75917

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?114195

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the "what if" retention of the 1939 World's Fair (IND) line......

Had the line been retained, and made into a full-time IND route, it would be interesting to see what route letter code might have been used.

I've seen photos of WF trains signed for the "E" ("E" WORLD'S FAIR)

Even if the WF line had been retained, it would have remained in limbo through the War, due to shortages and manpower issues.

Recall, the IND's extension (though largely completed, save for tracks, signals, etc.) to Euclid Avenue, did not open until 1948.

As city resources were poured into the 6th Avenue subway, progress on the Fulton St. line was deferred.

This line had opened for service as far as Rockaway Avenue in April, 1936, less than half a mile from the busy and complex BMT junction at Broadway-ENY..........

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
A few photos (IND World's Fair line).......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2355

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75917

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?114195

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Great shots...thanks for the link...that first photo must be taken from the Jewel Avenue overpass...just over a mile from my apartment...wish there was a station there when I used to commute later on...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

I am sure that you (and many others!) could have made good use of that IND* line, had it been retained; I still believe that there could have been, at least, a decent real-estate boom in that area, had this line not been pulled up after the Fair closed in 1940.

As the IND then used single letters to denote an express, and double letters to identify a local, it would have been interesting to see what letter(s) might have been used, had the former WF line been retained and upgraded/extended.

I have seen photos of streetcars operating in Queens during the 1930's; despite Queens being quite built up even then, there were other areas that ranged from the suburban to almost-rural countryside.

On Queens Boulevard, the streetcars utilized a two-track median between the vehicular roadways; one photo in a book I have shows a center-entrance car running along the reserved median trackage in the Kew Gardens area, looking far more like the country than Queens.

The photo caption mentions that this same seemingly-rural area today "a crowded neighborhood of multiple six-story apartment buildings".

One can only imagine today what the area adjacent to the old IND World's Fair line might be like today, had the line had been retained......

"NYO"

*Recall, that, when the first section of the IND 8th Avenue Subway opened in 1932, there was still no service to either Brooklyn or Queens; in early 1933, service to Brooklyn began, with trains operating beyond Chambers St. to Jay St., with service to Begen St. beginning a month later.

Then, in July, 1933, service began on the Concourse line, between 145th St. and E. 205th St.

That August, a portion of the Queens line from 50th St. and 8th Avenue to Roosevelt Avenue in Jackson Heights began operation, as did the portion of the Brooklyn Crosstown Line, from Queens Plaza as far as Nassau Avenue.

It would not be until 1940 that the 6th Avenue IND line opened.......
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What might have been........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IND_Second_System *

*There is also a link on this page that re-directs you to (brief) information on the proposed (modern day) Astoria line extension to LaGuardia Airport.
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
traildriver:

I am sure that you (and many others!) could have made good use of that IND* line, had it been retained; I still believe that there could have been, at least, a decent real-estate boom in that area, had this line not been pulled up after the Fair closed in 1940.

As the IND then used single letters to denote an express, and double letters to identify a local, it would have been interesting to see what letter(s) might have been used, had the former WF line been retained and upgraded/extended.

I have seen photos of streetcars operating in Queens during the 1930's; despite Queens being quite built up even then, there were other areas that ranged from the suburban to almost-rural countryside.

On Queens Boulevard, the streetcars utilized a two-track median between the vehicular roadways; one photo in a book I have shows a center-entrance car running along the reserved median trackage in the Kew Gardens area, looking far more like the country than Queens.

The photo caption mentions that this same seemingly-rural area today "a crowded neighborhood of multiple six-story apartment buildings".

One can only imagine today what the area adjacent to the old IND World's Fair line might be like today, had the line had been retained......

"NYO"

*Recall, that, when the first section of the IND 8th Avenue Subway opened in 1932, there was still no service to either Brooklyn or Queens; in early 1933, service to Brooklyn began, with trains operating beyond Chambers St. to Jay St., with service to Begen St. beginning a month later.

Then, in July, 1933, service began on the Concourse line, between 145th St. and E. 205th St.

That August, a portion of the Queens line from 50th St. and 8th Avenue to Roosevelt Avenue in Jackson Heights began operation, as did the portion of the Brooklyn Crosstown Line, from Queens Plaza as far as Nassau Avenue.

It would not be until 1940 that the 6th Avenue IND line opened.......


I don't know how much development could have occurred along that World's Fair extension....the Meadow Lake side of it would certainly have remained a park, as is now, and much of the other side runs along a cemetery. The side along Park Drive East is mostly single family, and two story 'garden apartments'...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

In any event, I'm sure that there would have been good ridership on that line, had it been retained and extended; I think folks (like yourself) who then lived near the WF line (later, the Van Wyck) would have appreciated a quick and convenient subway link into Manhattan.

Today, in 2020, the chances of ever seeing the subway extended out to LaGuardia (IMHO) are about as great as seeing a brand-new generation of Fifth Avenue double deckers (painted in the old FACCo. colors) operating on the fabled thoroughfare........ Shocked Shocked

The ASTORIA line featured classic BMT rolling stock into the 60's, including the fabled "AB" Standards and the hulking TRIPLEX D-Types; recall, too, that the Jamaica El was closed in the late 70's; and, from what I've heard, the "quality of life" along the former route (especially for some local business owners) was not all that rosy, after the El was demolished, from what I've read.....

"NYO"
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