BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Also of interest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Witt_streetcar

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

The Soviet version of the "Peter Witt" (the "LM-33").......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LM-33

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

B&QT once rostered nearly 600 double-ended Peter Witts; this was the largest fleet of such cars in the United States......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Single-ended 6000's at the CROSSTOWN depot (this depot last served streetcars in 1951)........

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt649.htm

(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Single/double-ended comparisons........

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt529.htm

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt798.htm

(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Interestingly, though the vast majority of the "original" Peter Witts were double-ended, the 8500's were operated as single-end cars, and were also equipped with turnstiles.

The 8000's (or "80's" as they were often called) were ordered in two groups; 200 cars in the initial order, and 335 in the second order.

A few of the "80's" were, in later years, fitted with PCC-style headlight wings......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's another photo I just came across, showing a single-ended 6000 series car that is described in the photo caption as a "Peter Witt".

I can see, now, that my initial hunch had been right along, despite what I had previously read; the 6000's WERE Peter Witts (albeit single-ended)

Odd that two very thorough, well-done books on Brooklyn streetcars never referred to the 6000's as "Peter Witts".........

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt518.htm

(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Single-end #6095 on Putnam Avenue........

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt515.htm

(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)

[N4 Jamaica]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Joe:

One of the problems I've had (regarding historical operations of bygone transit vehicles) is that, most of the time, you get "conflicting reports" from several different sources (books, online archives, etc.) regarding both vehicles and operations; this can be especially daunting of one did not live in said area, nor knew the vehicles personally.

Regarding single/double-ended operation, by the 1930's, PSNJ had rebuilt most of their HUDSON Division cars into single-ended cars; the last few lines using double-ended cars (with stub terminals at the outer ends) were converted in 1938)

However, on the ESSEX Division, both deck and Compromise roof cars remained double-ended until they were retired, even though all but one subway-surface line ("#23 CENTRAL") had loops at their outer ends.

The "#7 CITY SUBWAY" was the very last PS car line to use double-ended cars with an outer stub terminal (Franklin Avenue), and this terminal was replaced by the new loop installed for the second-hand PCC's, in later 1953............

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

While on the subject of PSNJ, the PETER WITT would have been a good choice for PS, had they decided to modernize their fleet.

Such cars would have been especially useful on the busiest ESSEX Division lines.

However, due to their obvious, ambitious plans to convert as many car lines to either ASV or bus, it is no wonder that PS never purchased new, modern street railway equipment, until they finally had to replace the old cars that they were using in the City Subway........

"NYO"

[N4 Jamaica]

Continuing with the topic of the 8500's. Dad brought me on about half the trolley routes of Brooklyn. One that I did not ride (because I was too young) ) was Summner-Sackett, which ran from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza to the Hamilton Ferry. A couple of photos on nycsubway.org show 8500's on this route, which had a loop at each end. According to the Arcadia book "Brooklyn Streetcars," Sumner-Sackett was created in 1934. In 1943, the Bergen Street carline replaced it.
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From the photos, I suspect that the 8500's that had a white sign around the headlight "Pay as you enter; Have exact fare ready" were double-ended cars that became single-ended when turnstiles were installed. The front pole was not removed. The turnstiles had to be removed in July, 1948, with the fare increase, but I suspect these cars had their turnstiles removed earlier and the cars were returned to double-end status. Here is 8506 on Sumner-Sackett in 1938.
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?118101

And here is the same car in Ridgewood in an undated photo.
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?142054

Joe

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Aside from the lone Brooklyn PCC built by CLARK (this company also built the articulated "Bluebird" cars), PCC #1010 was unusual (as seen here) as it was the only PCC to have a front ventilator installed over the windshields; this conversion took place in 1939 (this new vent was similar to the front vents used on Old Looks, in later years).........

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt343.htm

(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Joe:

Thanks for the photos and the memories; you are VERY lucky to have memories of Brooklyn's streetcars!

I was not born until January, 1957, just a few months after the last Brooklyn PCC's ran.

However, I do have MANY memories of riding prewar subway equipment with Mom as a kid, not to mention the City Subway PCC's......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's an interesting "head on" comparison view of a double-ended Peter Witt and a single-ended 6000.

As you can see, the 6000's had a more angular look than the double-ended cars.........

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/nyc/htm/bqt645.htm

(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)