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N4 Jamaica
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 860 Location: Long Island
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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:13 pm Post subject: [NJ]Signal arms on buses and streetcars 1931 |
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This quote comes from the excellent book, "Public Service Railway, Bergen Division," by B. H. Sennstrom and E. T. Francis, copyright 1994 by Harold E. Cox, Forty Fort, Penna.
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Page 82: During 1931, all street cars and motor buses operated by Public Service were equipped with illuminated signal arms which indicated turns or stops."
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I vaguely recall seeing these arms on delivery trucks in New York City. They also were shown on the Bus Stop signs along Black Horse Pike in the 1970's. Someplace I have a slide of this bus stop sign, showing an All-Service Vehicle with a signal arm adjacent to the front door.
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Of course, the ASV's were gone in the 1970's, but the Bus Stop signs remained. The route would have been based in Turnersville.
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Can anyone add further information about mechanical signal arms, the predecessor of blinking turn signals?
Last edited by N4 Jamaica on Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23195 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Joe:
I have seen many photos of these interesting semaphore arms on PSNJ buses and streetcars (also ASV's); recall, many traffic signals also used them at the time. The original 1930's "modern" PS "BUS OR CAR STOP" signs showed an ASV (you could see the poles); in later years, the ASV itself was modernized into a diesel bus, and, of course, the trolley poles were missing.
With the new graphics, the old semaphore arm was also gone.
Growing up, there were many such signs still around in my area; the very last of the "modern" (1950's) version was still able to be seen in Ridgefield, as late as 1992 (I took a few photos)
In the book "TROLLEY TREASURES" (Mankoff/Wrege) which details PS "Compromise" roof cars, there are a number of photos showing these signal arms.
Oddly, there are photos that shows that there were some "Compromise" roof cars that clearly lacked the semaphore blades (why, I have no idea)
There was also a Union City Police Department Ordinance, passed about 1940, that required all PS streetcars used on the "UNION CITY" and "SUMMIT" car lines be equipped with rooftop running lights.
Only the cars that were assigned to the "UNION CITY" car house were equipped with these "bug eye" lights......
"NYO" |
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N4 Jamaica
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 860 Location: Long Island
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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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One time riding south on a Jackson car at night, the pole jumped, and we were in darkness until the motorman reattached it to the wire. Dad explained that a Union City ordinance required a red kerosene lamp inside the rear window of streetcars at night just in case the car went dark. But, of course, we were in Jersey City. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23195 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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N4 Jamaica wrote: | One time riding south on a Jackson car at night, the pole jumped, and we were in darkness until the motorman reattached it to the wire. Dad explained that a Union City ordinance required a red kerosene lamp inside the rear window of streetcars at night just in case the car went dark. But, of course, we were in Jersey City. |
Joe:
The following is from the aforementioned "TROLLEY TREASURES" book:
".........red arrows were installed on all Public Service buses and streetcars early in 1931. The project cost $50,000. Buses (and later, ASV's) carried arrows on both the right and left sides; streetcars only had them on the right side. Bus signals were operated by a button; streetcar signals were operated by hand......"
"........signal arms were constructed of red Bakelight and contained a small electric light, making the signal clearly visible at night. ......"
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23195 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:39 am Post subject: |
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Here's a YELLOW COACH builder's photo of a new PSNJ ASV in 1935; that same year, the first major conversion of a PS streetcar line to ASV took place (September, 1935) on the (Newark-Bound Brook) "#49 UNION".
Note the signal arms on both sides of the ASV, which is still devoid of roller curtains, lettering, insignias, and numbers........
http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_builderphoto_1935_05_notlamebrain.htm
(courtesy" trolleybuses.net)
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23195 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23195 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:53 am Post subject: |
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Here, a PS square-window Old Look (A-182) sports "modern", circular turn signals; no longer a need for the old-fashioned signal arms........
http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4229
(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org) |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23195 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:57 am Post subject: |
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A more modern PS paired window Old Look (J-323) is here equipped with the more streamlined turn signals......
http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1501
(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org) |
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traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2462 Location: South Florida
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Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:00 am Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | A more modern PS paired window Old Look (J-323) is here equipped with the more streamlined turn signals......
http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1501
(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org) |
That looks like a '58 Ford Skyliner hardtop convertible across the street... |
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N4 Jamaica
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 860 Location: Long Island
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Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:22 am Post subject: |
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NYO remarked on compromise roof cars not having the semaphores. There is a chance that you are looking at cars mainly assigned to City Subway service, which did not have automobile traffic on either side.
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Here in Nassau County, the newest of the NICE buses not only blink on the side about to turn, but a loudspeaker announces the turn, "Bus turning. Bus turning." On the rear, in the small panel where the route number is usually shown, the word STOP appears when moving into a bus stop. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23195 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:12 am Post subject: |
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N4 Jamaica wrote: | NYO remarked on compromise roof cars not having the semaphores. There is a chance that you are looking at cars mainly assigned to City Subway service, which did not have automobile traffic on either side.
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Here in Nassau County, the newest of the NICE buses not only blink on the side about to turn, but a loudspeaker announces the turn, "Bus turning. Bus turning." On the rear, in the small panel where the route number is usually shown, the word STOP appears when moving into a bus stop. |
Joe:
I again checked through photos in the "TROLLEY TREASURES" book, which I've already mentioned; there are a number of photos showing cars at GREENVILLE that clearly (from different angles) had no signal arms.
At the time of those photos, cars of the "JACKSON" and "OAKLAND" lines were based there, as well as cars serving the War lines.
Of course, there are also photos at GREENVILLE showing cars with signal arms clearly visible.
There are also quite a few photos taken at PSNJ's infamous PASSAIC WHARF storage facility (in earlier years, a large PS maintenence/shop facility), where hundreds of PS streetcars were scrapped in the late 1930's and early 1940's, showing stored "Compromise" roof cars (ESSEX Division) that clearly had no signal arms.
One wartime (close up) photo shows a "Compromise" roof car in Jersey City, working on the wartime "FEDERAL" line (these cars were also based at GREEVILLE); there is not even an indication that the signal arms had been removed at an earlier date.
Streetcars assigned to the Newark subway-surface lines (#21, #23, #29) would have, of course, used the signal arms as they ran along street trackage.......
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23195 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:18 am Post subject: |
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traildriver wrote: | NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | A more modern PS paired window Old Look (J-323) is here equipped with the more streamlined turn signals......
http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1501
(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org) |
That looks like a '58 Ford Skyliner hardtop convertible across the street... |
Joe:
You and I are on the SAME wavelength, here!
I love this old photo; even the passengers boarding have a distinct "dated" look, looking a lot like the photo was taken in 1950, instead of 1960 (excepting the classic autos!)
You KNOW you are getting "up there" when you can remember when buses and autos looked liked this......
"NYO" |
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N4 Jamaica
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 860 Location: Long Island
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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On White Horse Pike in Camden County 42 years after Public Service stopped using All-Service Vehicles. Note the two semaphores, made of Bakelite. When extended, it was illuminated.
Lawnside NJ ASV sign by sphoto33, on Flickr |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 23195 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Joe:
I have two of these ASV signs (one original, one replica)
1990 would have been about the same time I saw the very last one in my general area (this was the more modern version, showing a diesel bus), just off Broad Avenue in Ridgefield.
I snapped a few photos before it disappeared not long after.
As a kid, these signs were so commonplace in my area....I still remember them fondly.....
"NYO" |
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