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Now that the RTS is history.....what might be the new "
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

You are MORE than welcome, my friend! Wink

(of course, Mr. MaBSTOA 15 worked his "magic" once again, and provided us here with some truly AWESOME old photos (par for the course!) Very Happy

Thanks, also, for your interesting input (I had no idea that PS had a part in this!)

When I think of PS's "long haul" routes, I generally only think of runs between New York (and Newark) to the Jersey Shore points and to Philadelphia.

GREYHOUND still had a ticket office/sidewalk depot At Journal Square into the 1970's......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Journal Square, Jersey City (1973).

In this timeless portrait of a first-generation, bat wing PSNJ/TNJ Fishbowl (seen at the old PS terminal off Sip Avenue), the GREYHOUND depot can be seen just across the street......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1505

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MCI truly has also become a "classic" in its own right, and deservedly so; it is hard to believe that MCI's have been serving with GREYHOUND since the 1960's.....well over five decades ago!

And NJT has been operating the big "Jersey Hounds" since the 1980's!

The big MCI, IMHO, has always been a "no-nonsense, no frills, take-me-on-if-you-dare" type of coach; that the MCI has been used by both intercity and suburban bus companies over the past several decades indeed tells a great deal of the versatility and the ruggedness of this "big bruiser".

To this very day, I am still referring to NJT's big, hulking MCI coaches as"Jersey Hounds/Big Bad MCI's"! Very Happy

"NYO"

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4345

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of the MCI, the tough-looking MC-6 was MCI's and GREYHOUND's first experiment with a 102-inch wide intercity bus.

Two prototypes were built in 1967, and production began in 1969 for a total of 100.

North of the border, through the 1950's, GREYHOUND continued to purchase most MCI buses built; in 1948, the company bought MCI.

The "MC" series of buses originated in 1959; the earliest models, MC-1 through MC-4, were sold only in Canada and totaled 196.

The MC-5 series were also among the earliest assembled at GREYHOUND's MCI assembly plant at Pembina, North Dakota, in 1963........

"NYO"

(source: "THE BUS WORLD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BUSES" (Stauss)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further on the MCI......It's interesting that when the MC-6 first entered service with GREYHOUND, a number of states balked at providing operating approval for the buses.

Fifteen on the MC-6's spent their entire service lives operating in Canada; the 85 US MC-6's first operated on the East coast, but were later sent to California where they served out their service lives.

In California, the engines were changed to 8V71's, and the manual transmissions were swapped for Allison automatics.

The Canadian MC-6's, however, retained their original 12V 71 engines and manual transmissions.

GREYHOUND later sold the buses to independent operators.....
"NY"

Source: "THE BUS WORLD ENCYCLOPEDIA PF BUSES" (Stauss)
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYO--
It is interesting in the history of highway buses "pushing the envelope", so to speak...
First length was the first challenge...many states resisted 40 foot long coaches, then later, 45 footer's. Yet trucks can have 53 foot trailer's. The articulated coaches were and are an exception.
Wider (102") buses also were first only allowed in certain cities....you would think that the open road should have been first with longer and wider buses, than city streets.

About the same time as the two MCI MC-6X prototypes came out, Continental Trailways ordered a single Eagle model '03', also 102" wide, followed in 1969 by 45 model '07' Eagles. In the case of the 45 model '07's, only a skilled eye could readily tell them apart from the concurrently produced model '05'.
The easiest way was the body overhang on each side, 3" beyond the wheels, since they employed the same axles as the '05's. You could also notice the 6" wider destination sign window in a front view. To save costs, they employed as much material as possible, used in making the narrower model.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Agreed; I always thought that lengths, widths, etc. were always an interesting facet of bus history, one that is not all that often discussed.

Regarding lengths (and widths) there were many variations among the Old Looks; the models initially available in 1940 were 28, 30, 31, and 35 feet in length, and 96 inches wide.

In later years, the maximum dimensions increased to forty feet in length, and 102 inches wide..........

"NYO"

Source: "THE BUS WORLD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BUSES" (Stauss)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a related note, NORTHLAND GREYHOUND LINES took delivery of 16 VISICOACHES from FLXIBLE in 1953; these buses were unique in that they had retractable wheels at the rear (the buses also had GM diesels)

The extra wheels were needed, because, at the time, Minnesota had strict weight restrictions imposed on a number of highways that NORTHLAND buses traveled on during the spring months.

When the ground was thawing in the spring, the extra wheels supposedly gave the buses better weight distribution.

After the spring thaw, the extra wheels at the rear were retracted.

I always thought this most interesting....... Wink

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also.......

In 1940, YELLOW built one Model TD-5501 for testing in both New York and Chicago, for the eventual replacement of the double-deckers that were then in service in both cities.

The design was 42 feet long and had a capacity of 55 passengers.

Before finally being aquired by FACCo. its seating was revised because of emergency exit requirements, and was re-designated as a TD-5401.

"NYO"

Source: "YELLOW COACH BUSES" (Willam A. Luke)
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
On a related note, NORTHLAND GREYHOUND LINES took delivery of 16 VISICOACHES from FLXIBLE in 1953; these buses were unique in that they had retractable wheels at the rear (the buses also had GM diesels)

The extra wheels were needed, because, at the time, Minnesota had strict weight restrictions imposed on a number of highways that NORTHLAND buses traveled on during the spring months.

When the ground was thawing in the spring, the extra wheels supposedly gave the buses better weight distribution.

After the spring thaw, the extra wheels at the rear were retracted.

I always thought this most interesting....... Wink

"NYO"


You may recall, the PD-4903 and later 4905, also had retractable tag wheels, for the same purpose...
Those could also be removed altogether, to yield another baggage bay.

There is an interesting legend about the first 4903's...
Back when they came out in 1968, Those companies that had NJTP charge accounts were issued cardboard (think IBM punch card) toll tickets that the driver would hand to the toll collector to be validated when entering the Turnpike, and then would be surrendered when leaving the Turnpike.
The rates were different for two and three axle buses back then, and the two axle cards had two red stripes across them, while the three axle cards had three red stripes, for quick identification.

So the story goes, a driver of XYZ lines pulled up to the booth, and realized he only had two axle cards in his bag. He then remembered what he was driving, and pressed the toggle switch that raised the tag wheels into the last bay. The toll collector took the card, then handed it back to the driver, telling him it was the wrong card, that he needed the three axle card.
The driver told him to look again, and the toll collector looked back at the coach, and his jaw dropped...he shook his head and said that he must be getting old, or something, and validated the two axle card.

As soon as he got out of sight, the driver then lowered the tags again, only to repeat the procedure upon exiting.....

I don't know if that is a true story, or not....but I like to think that it is ... Laughing
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

COOL info; was not aware of any of this.....thanks for sharing! Wink

On a related note, we cannot forget the unique 4801's; recall, that, in the early 50's, GM's 40 foot Old Looks were too heavy for California rules, so GM simply shortnend the bus and designated it the 4801.

The 4801's were 37-3/4 feet long and 102 inches wide; the 4801's had air suspension and paired windows, like the 5105's.

The first 4801's were delivered to PACIFIC ELECTRIC in June, 1953.

The last 4801's were purchased by the KEY SYSTEM; interestingly, KEY was forced by the PUC to purchase 21 4801's to replace the 1930's-era "Bridge Trains" that were then running across the lower level of the Bay Bridge.

The 4801 was also unique in that it was one of only two wide bodies built, with the option of manual transmission; the model 5103 was the other.

GREYHOUND bought all 75 of the TDM-4801's produced; the company used the buses extensively on their Bay Area commuter routes 9MACKS were also used)

As late as the mid-1980's, PEERLESS STAGES (Oakland) still had six ex-GREYHOUND 4801's on the roster.

LOS ANGELES TRANSIT LINES/MTA also operated a number of 4801's.

The 4801's were only built between 1953 and 1958; in the late 50's, California highway restrictions were changed to allow 40-foot transit buses to legally operate in California.

In later years, a number of ex-SCRTD 4801's saw further service in Mexico........

"NYO"

Source:

BUS WORLD magazine, Spring, 1986 ("CUT TO FIT", feature by James Husing)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Increased bus length was also quite apparent with postwar buses in New York, especially regarding MACK coaches; models like the C-45 has a distinctly "stubby" look to them, especially when compared to the newer, larger MACK models such as the C-49 and the C-50-DT's.

In "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT SYSTEM BUS & TROLLEY COACH FLEET" (Greller) it is stated that 1956 C-49's: "......had the biggest wheel base (289 1/2") of any bus in the system....."

These MACKS could also turn on a 53% angle.

Recall, also the unique "Bingham" MACKS of 1950-1951 (C-50-DT); according to the Greller book, these buses were "........MACK's answer to the GMC-TDH 5101........"

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As we're on the Macks . . . Sept. 13 will be the 65th anniversary of Surface Transportation first unveiling their GM TDH-5106 1060-1089 (later renumbered 3260-3289 by MaBSTOA in 1963) fleet; The New York Times, in their article announcing this addition, said STS would add 25 new buses soon after. Turned out, at the time (in October), it would only be 10 new ones - the C-49DT 2990-2999 (later renumbered 4990-4999), one of three STS orders to Mack through 1958 (the others being 2962-2989 and 800, later 4962-4989 and 4910, respectively, in 1956; and 3000-3009, later 4900-4909, in 1958). Those total 49 Macks would all be retired by 1967 when the GM A/C batwing Fishbowls came on the scene.
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MaBSTOA 15



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, Somerset Bus Company acquired nine SDH-5302 in 1965. These buses were ex-Greyhound, New York World's Fair.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Thanks for sharing this info; 65 years IS indeed a lifetime!

IMHO, I have long that that the 1956 C-49's could have lasted in service longer than they did; after all, they were little more than a decade old when they were retired, not all that old for a transit bus.

Ditto the TDH-5106's that were delivered to ST in 1959; the very last Old Looks in my general area did not vanish until 1986, and were roughly 30 years old when they were finally retired.

I am sure New York's Old Looks (at least the newest models) could have lasted far longer in service, had "Tee-Yay" brass decided to hold onto them for even several more years.

The ex-ST 5106's were always my favorite New York Old Look; those distinctive destination sign box housings (fluorescent lit!) really set them off nicely!)

Yep, back in the day, we truly had classics in our midst on a daily basis......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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