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There's more to a picture than meets the eye.....
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This 1971 photo (Tremont & Boston) truly holds much nostalgia, albeit melancholy.

Note the plethora of fading, ragged posters plastered on the closed BICKFORD'S (note the "PALISADES AMUSEMENT PARK" posters; the fabled amusement park, which Your's Truly grew up with, closed after the 1971 season. Massive high-rise condominiums now site on the park site)

Also note the vintage neon signing (and painted signs) that clearly have all seen better days.

#6563 almost has a "still life" quality to it, in this view......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2111

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morris & 161st, 1981.

Another interesting vintage slice of "Noo Yawk".

Note that #6527's dash numbers are barely visible, and that the sign box is devoid of a roller curtain.

Bet that "SOUL FOOD" eatery on the left served up some mighty fine tasting, old-style, southern "Grandma food"!

Wouldn't mind a take-out order from "WILLIAM'S BAR B-Q", either!

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2103

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 53
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 576
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
I hope you don't mind my asking this question (I am also directing this to MaBSTOA 15): HOW in the heck did you get so knowledgeable on not only the specific bus orders (and their respective assignments through the years), and, also, HOW were you able to glean so much "in depth" information on roller curtains (fonts/readings.splices, etc.)?? Shocked Shocked

Wasn't easy. But it came from reading posts on various threads here and on other sites (i.e. BusChat), as well as noticing key details with respect to the front roll signs (#6563, as I said other places, had a recycled 1963 front roll sign from the first MaBSTOA order), studying vintage photos, and then connecting the dots. That, plus whatever was put online from various pages of the Motor Coach Age articles about MaBSTOA, FACCo, STS and NYCO. Some eBay sellers have put up front roll signs from 146th Street depot with many splices whereby portions of a 1964 roll sign and parts of the post-July 1974 nomenclatures could be seen in one combined roll sign. That too has been a clue (most post-'60's bus roll signs on eBay were usually side signs, whether batwing or non-batwing, from the Flatbush and Ulmer Park depots, with a few leftovers from MaBSTOA from Dec. 13, 1966 - the date on the one "batwing" side sign).

Interesting that 1962 was also when PATH took over the "tubes" previously run by the long-bankrupt H&M (Hudson & Manhattan), but it wasn't until 1965 that their first "new" fleet, the PA-1's, took to the rails. So in many ways 1962 was as pivotal a year in New York area transportation (and that's not counting the first season of the New York Mets) as 1969 was in every which way.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

I am SURE your vast amount of bus knowledge did NOT come easy; indeed, it HAD to have been many years of intense study and research....and that work truly manifests itself in your tremendous input here, today! Wink

Speaking of "the Tubes" (which I have known like the back of my hand since age five!) I recall that, though the old"Black" cars had no end destination/route signs, they did have small roller sign boxes at the sides I'd KILL for one of those, today!)

Interestingly, IRT's 1938 WF cars, as well as the IND R-10's, and IRT R-12's/14's all had the same "monitor" style roof that the "H&M cars had.

I recall that while the 1958 H&M/PRR "K" Class joint service cars had roller signs at the car ends and on the sides, the new "PA" cars only had small roller signs at the cab ends of "A" cars.

I still cringe when I think of how many hundreds, if not thousands of NYCTA/MTA subway and bus roller curtains were either tossed in the trash, or simply left intact when the equipment was scrapped.

NO WONDER that what remains today quite often commands such high prices.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.

Speaking of roll signs, wouldn't you LOVE to be working with what the fellow here has on hand?? Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

BIG $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ today, for sure, if these still existed!!! Shocked Shocked Shocked

Man, I know I sure would not mind working here....... Wink

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/usr_h_pit_misc_007_rollsignshop_rhkj.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's #6707 working the Bx30 at 149th & Melrose, 1973.

Also note the subway entrance (whose light globes now sport an "MTA" logo) on the left......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1055

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentlemen:

It indeed would interesting (not to mention insightful and inspirational) to have a book published containing first-hand accounts of the City's "pioneer" African-American transit workers (bus/streetcar/subway)

Most assuredly, these men faced and fought discrimination and resentment initially from white co-workers, but, just as certainly, there had to have been some white fellows who befriended these "outsiders" and guided them along.

Though I've read several excellent books on Pullman porters and other African-American railroad men, I still have yet to have seen one dealing with the history and experiences of African-American transit workers.

Such a book, I feel is long overdue, and would make for a most worthy edition to anyone's transit library.

There are far too many stories, I am sure, that do not deserve to pass into oblivion, swallowed up by ever-marching time.

The experiences of the past can still educate us, in so many ways.

Remember, when ANY of us cuts himself, we ALL bleed the SAME color.......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA #6730, laying over at South Ferry, 1972, still wearing the original green.

Also note that the bus is still wearing its original SUPER-COOL "OA" insignia...... Wink

Also, note the first signs of graffiti.........(yeeecchh)

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1058

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to post this one here, as it is the first that I've ever come across in my numerous photo research quests to show a bus (#6720, here) sporting a "TB TO WARDS ISLAND" reading on the roller curtain.

The photo dates to 1972 (Lexington & 126th)

The "BUS STOP LUNCHEONETTE" on the left looked like it was a neat place for a bus enthusiast of that day a quick, tasty, and economical lunch! Wink

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2192

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

*Also, note the nostalgic "RHEINGOLD" batwing ad, as well as the (remember these?) two-light traffic signals........
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 658
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It amazes me that the three-color signal appeared in Detroit in 1920!
Created by William Potts
---
New York was way, way behind.
---
A German film of 1941 Munich shows a three-color signal.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
It amazes me that the three-color signal appeared in Detroit in 1920!
Created by William Potts
---
New York was way, way behind.
---
A German film of 1941 Munich shows a three-color signal.


Joe:

Remember, also, those classic two-light traffic signals that were equipped with mechanical/electrical "STOP" and "GO"semaphore arms, seen in countless old theatrical cartoons and movies!

From my many books on vintage London buses, I've also learned that London began installing three-color traffic signals in the late 1920's; some areas, however, like some areas in New York, used two-light signals.

Too, there were also special signals that were only used by (London) trams (the last of which ran in 1952).....

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

Though not on-topic, see this 1940's vintage bus photo, showing the "semaphore arm" traffic signal I mentioned in my previous post.....

"NYO"

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/pe/htm/pe546.htm

(courtesy:newdavesrailpix)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The racially-motivated Philadelphia transit strike of 1944 (w/photos)

Very interesting reading........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_transit_strike_of_1944
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"WE DRIVE TANKS-WHY NOT TROLLEYS?"

(More on the 1944 Philadelphia transit strike; photos also)......

https://hiddencityphila.org/2014/08/an-anniversary-to-forget-august-1-1944/
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philadelphia, circa-1955.

Prior to 1944, the man seen here at the controls of car #8139 would not have been piloting a streetcar (or driving a bus, for that matter); he would have, instead, been relegated to menial labor.

What a difference a decade or so makes.........

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/phila/htm/ehp008.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)
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