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The "Other" New Look
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 53
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 576
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
New Look (GM) #8325, patiently awaiting passengers at Grand Concourse & Fordham Rd., circa 1970.

Again, note the large, easy-to-decipher lettering on the roller curtain; also of note, the old "BUS STOP" sign, which was a relic even then.........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2562

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org0

Of the "old-style" roll signs, I much preferred those fonts shown - which were from Transign. Their typefaces were first shown in Manhattan on roll signs of FACL's (GM) New Looks in 1960, would be ubiquitous on R32 and R38 subway cars, and be used for new roll signs well into the '80's in certain areas of the country.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
New Look (GM) #8325, patiently awaiting passengers at Grand Concourse & Fordham Rd., circa 1970.

Again, note the large, easy-to-decipher lettering on the roller curtain; also of note, the old "BUS STOP" sign, which was a relic even then.........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2562

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org0

Of the "old-style" roll signs, I much preferred those fonts shown - which were from Transign. Their typefaces were first shown in Manhattan on roll signs of FACL's (GM) New Looks in 1960, would be ubiquitous on R32 and R38 subway cars, and be used for new roll signs well into the '80's in certain areas of the country.


W.B.:

Yes, I well recall this font on the "Brightliner" roller curtains; again, very distinctive and easy to read (I also remember the large route letters on the R-44/46 cars when they entered service)

I remember the ACADEMY drivers I knew who were less than happy when ACADEMY replaced the roller curtains with HUGE fonts on the Flex Metros (they practically SHOUTED out at you!) with electronic signage.

None of the drivers I knew cared for this change; they all preferred to old roller signs.

Too, passengers would comment on how difficult it was to read the new electronic signs, especially on bright, sunny days when there was a lot of glare.

It was also difficult to read NJT's early electronic front signs on the Metros; again, on a bright day (I remember this well), they were often difficult to decipher..........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for comparison, here is a photo of an ACADEMY 3200 series METRO (I rode these buses twice daily on the "BOULEVARD EAST" route for years, as part of my commute into the city)

As you can see here, the large-font roller curtains have been replaced by electronic signage.......and the modern signage is not all that distinct, especially if seen from a distance.....

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3356

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flex #7873 at Pelham Bay Park, 1978.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2544

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GM #8934 on the M-104, 1972 (note no "M" prefix yet on the roller curtain)

The "Ringling Brothers" circus "Bus-O-Rama" ad dates this photo as much as the 1960's "Fishbowl" bus stop sign (I'm lucky to have one in my collection today!) Very Happy

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2577

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 636

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New York's first fleet of Flxible "New Looks" was acquired by Triboro Coach.

Here are two views of #s 801 (in beautiful color) and 811 fresh out the doors of the factory.



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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15:

BEAUTIFUL PHOTOS!!!!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

As I had mentioned earlier in this discussion, I have long believed (and still do) that the Flex "New Look" (some may disagree that the Flex model WAS a "New Look") was always more or less a "second fiddle" to the GM New Looks.

As I had said earlier, there was so much hoopla, celebration, and media coverage when the new GM's first debuted in 1959; with the Flex, however, it was all pretty much "Ah, OK, it's a new bus".

I still believe that the Flex "New Look" is, even today, and oft-underrated classic.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought.....

If some do not consider the Flex bus as a "New Look", then it certainly could never be classified a "Fishbowl".

Indeed, the two entirely different front end/windshield designs are as different as night and day.

Personally, I DO consider the Flex to be a "New Look", BUT certainly NOT a Fishbowl (then again, I never would, for obvious reasons)

It is also interesting how some cities took to the Flex more than others; just as the CTA was greatly enamored with the earlier FAGEOL/TWIN COACHES, they were just as "gung-ho" for the Flex, which became their "bus of choice" for many years, until the 1970's.......

"NYO"
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
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Posts: 636

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Along with the Flxibles you can include the AM Generals and the Flyer buses. They all had a knockoff of the GM windshields.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15 wrote:
Along with the Flxibles you can include the AM Generals and the Flyer buses. They all had a knockoff of the GM windshields.


Agreed 100%!

Too, I have many vintage "New Look" toy buses in my collection; ALL are GMC's.

In my years of collecting, I have yet to have seen a "New Look" toy based on a FLXIBLE bus.

However, I DO have in my collection small 1950's plastic buses (RENWAL) that were clearly inspired by the postwar TWIN/FAGEOL; ditto a postwar TOOTSIETOY.

Regarding CORGI.....all their "New Looks" are/were GMC's.......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I had mentioned earlier here, Flex "New Looks" were never seen in my area until about 1976, when a large number of DOT-purchased Flex coaches began making inroads into a number of New Jersey fleets (these were both transit and suburban models)

I last remember riding them on NJT's #B-1/#751, in the later 1990's.

I also remember, until 1997, an ex-WAMATA Flex New Look operating on the old NHBL's #1, between Nungesers and Journal Square; the deep bucket seats were still in pretty nice shape and VERY comfortable!

I'm guessing that this MIGHT have been one of the DC buses that trekked up to New York, to pinch in during the GRUMMAN fiasco.......

"NYO"

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?130

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3595

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3440

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2316

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2334

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Steinway Transit AM General "New Look" passes a TA Flxible...


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MaBSTOA 15



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

... and the Flyer "New Look"


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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7056
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15:

Yet again......OUTSTANDING photos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

It's funny you posted these photos; I have long thought that the Flyer "New Looks" clearly had a body was that was inspired by Flxible; the Flyer bodies had the same "bulked up" look that characterized the Flex New Looks.

As far as the AM GENERAL and FLYER windshields, all I can say is "imitation is the SINCEREST form of flattery"!

Here again, this discussion (again) shows just how much "in depth" and detailed the bus hobby really is, especially when delving into the "historic" aspect....... Wink

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a few vintage TRIBORO Flex photos; again, you can see that FLYER's "New Look" bodies more or less copied the "beefier" bodies of the Flex coaches.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2259

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2261

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2268

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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