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St. George bus platforms, etc.......
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While on the subject of Staten Island buses........

IMHO, photographic coverage of Staten Island's buses (past and present) is virtually non-existant.

On the vast bus.nycsubway.org site, there are literally thousands of photos (mostly vintage) of buses and bus operations in Manhattan, the Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens.

In my research, I have found relatively few photos of Staten Island buses, and, at that, almost all were taken at St. George.

The oldest Staten Island photo I have seen, to date, dated from the late 1960's, showing one of the last MACKS pulling out of the St. George terminal.

For whatever reason, I feel that the bus photographers of several decades back paid little (if any) attention to Staten Island's buses.

I like to imagine what a wealth of vintage Staten Island bus photos would be at our disposal today, had the photographers/enthusiasts of several decades ago documented more of Staten Island's buses on film.

Just my 2 1/2 cents worth, here.......

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 658
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try to figure out the roller signs on 9043 in this photo of a bus that just came from Brookllyn and is about to go under the expressway.

http://www.secretstatenisland.com/lily-pond-ave/

Or figure out the approximate year of this Staten Island Coach Co. ACF on R114
HERE
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
Try to figure out the roller signs on 9043 in this photo of a bus that just came from Brookllyn and is about to go under the expressway.

http://www.secretstatenisland.com/lily-pond-ave/

Or figure out the approximate year of this Staten Island Coach Co. ACF on R114
HERE


Joe:

Many, many thanks for posting the links to these pictures, none of which I have ever seen before! Very Happy

(regarding the second link you posted):The bus in the photo in the fourth row, second from left, is an ACF Model 36-S; ACF built over 500 of these buses between 1938 and 1942.

The bus in the top row (second from right) MIGHT be an ACF H-15-S, first introduced in 1934.

Hope this helps........... Wink

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of these photos from an article in the Staten Island Advance may be of interest. Bus 219 has an entrance door behind the front axle and an exit door behind the rear axle.
Link
https://www.silive.com/news/2016/02/12_vintage_bus_photos_from_atu_2.html
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
Some of these photos from an article in the Staten Island Advance may be of interest. Bus 219 has an entrance door behind the front axle and an exit door behind the rear axle.
Link
https://www.silive.com/news/2016/02/12_vintage_bus_photos_from_atu_2.html


Joe:

GREAT STUFF!!!!!!!! Wink

Bus #219, which appears to be a 1930's ACF H-15-6, which was first produced in 1934.

Though quite modern in its day, it certainly looks quite dated alongside the new postwar MACKS!

LOVE the photo of the WHITE 798; WHITES were generally not the type of bus one would associate with New York; however, in my area of northern New Jersey, WHITES were quite common, and would be through the at least 1966/1967.

That late 80's bus jam at St. George, populated with Flex New Looks and RTS's, sure makes you nostalgic for the old days!

Thanks again for sharing....... Very Happy

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the bus jam photo, my memory is of the 1960's. A dispatcher somewhere (in the tower, perhaps?) would observe that the crowd from the arriving ferry had not only reached the bus platforms, but that the crowd flow had ceased. Then the buses would be released to the streets, some turning left onto Bay Street, others turning right onto Richmond Terrace. The purpose was praiseworthy: namely, don't strand passengers who have just gotten off the boat.
---
The opposite scenario would be when I raced from the boat to the bus and found that the bus had just left. More often, the connection from the ferry was coordinated. Inbound, towards Manhattan, the ferry would not be held for arriving buses.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
Regarding the bus jam photo, my memory is of the 1960's. A dispatcher somewhere (in the tower, perhaps?) would observe that the crowd from the arriving ferry had not only reached the bus platforms, but that the crowd flow had ceased. Then the buses would be released to the streets, some turning left onto Bay Street, others turning right onto Richmond Terrace. The purpose was praiseworthy: namely, don't strand passengers who have just gotten off the boat.
---
The opposite scenario would be when I raced from the boat to the bus and found that the bus had just left. More often, the connection from the ferry was coordinated. Inbound, towards Manhattan, the ferry would not be held for arriving buses.


Joe:

Your reminisces reminded me of the PM rushes at St. George when I was a kid; Mom and I, on one of our day trips to Staten Island, would stand to the side of the staircase leading up from the SIRT concourse, after we had gotten off our train from Tottenville, as the mobs of SIRT commuters dashed past us in the opposite direction, heading for the electric trains.

Sometimes, we'd go up to a bus platform, to watch the buses pulling in, loading, and then pulling out (To this day, I can still hear that oh-so- sweet, diesel-y cacophony of Old Looks and MACKS as they arrived and departed!)

Pre-1965, any boat we boarded for the salt-tinged voyage back to Whitehall Street would have been a steamer (I particularly remember the "DONGAN HILLS" and "MISS NEW YORK"-class boats, with their open upper deck promenades, running around the cabins)

At South Ferry, we would then board a red IRT 7th Avenue #1 train for Times Square and the PABT, where we would board a NHBL #5 bus for Union City (about a 15 minute ride); I used to be fascinated by the gap fillers on the IRT loop platform (Mom always called them "pneumatic gates"!)

Mom usually had tokens in her pocketbook, so we could could bypass the long lines at the change booth (sometimes, we would take the shuttle to Bowling Green)

I still remember when Lo-V's were used on the shuttle (after 1964, R-12's/14's) and then take a Lexington Avenue train up to Grand Central, and then, board the shuttle to Times Square....Mom sure knew how to keep me smiling!) Wink

Many years later, Mom still recalled the "nice stores" (as she always referred to them) at the St. George terminal; it was always a special treat to eat at the lunch counter alongside a SIRT conductor or motorman!

Man, I'd give anything to live it all over again........ Very Happy

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While on the subject of surface transit in Staten Island, it is interesting to note that Richmond utilized trolley buses some years before they first appeared on the streets of Brooklyn; these early electric vehicles were operated by the DEPARTMENT OF PLANT & STRUCTURES, which, at the time, also operated the Staten Island Ferry.

Staten Island was also the first borough to eliminate its streetcars (1930's); Brooklyn's last streetcars, on the other hand, did not make their final runs until 1956.

After the demise of Staten Island's last streetcars, the only electric passenger rail operation to serve the borough were the SIRT trains, radiating out from St. George to Tottenville, South Beach, and Arlington........

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri May 03, 2019 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two rare 1920's photos here showing Staten Island trackless trolleys......

http://www.trolleybuses.net/nop/nop.htm

(courtesy: trolleybuses.net)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_streetcar_lines_in_Staten_Island

*(note that, at one time, there were two companies on Staten Island that ran streetcars)
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N4 Jamaica




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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_streetcar_lines_in_Staten_Island

*(note that, at one time, there were two companies on Staten Island that ran streetcars)


Someplace on the internet there is a decent history of trolley buses on Staten Island. I am surprised by the juxtaposition of two photos of trackless trolleys (one at the Carteret ferry and the other in Tottenville marked Richmond) with the Wikipedia list of streetcar routes, none of which is listed as going to Linoleumville or Tottenville. In each case, I think the trackless trolley in 1922 served as an extension of streetcar service rather than its replacement. In other locales, the trackless trolley might have been the replacement, but not in these two photos.
---
Shortly after I moved to Staten Island in 1959, the Advance ran an article explaining that some new Macks, maybe the Binghams, could not u-turn at a few locations because of steering radius. About twenty years ago, I discovered that buses were u-turning at the end of Victory Blvd, where the Carteret ferry had existed.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

For many years, the ferries that connected Staten Island to New Jersey operated old sidewheel, walking-beam double-enders.

PUBLIC SERVICE, in later years, operated these boats; by the 1940's, a new company, SUNRISE FERRIES took over these operations (in 1948, this company also took over the SIRT's Perth Amboy-Tottenville run, which operated until October, 1963; until 1948, the SIRT was using two sidewheel walking beam ferries on this line, the "PERTH AMBOY" and the "CHARLES GALLOWAY")

PSNJ also, for many years, operated the Bergen Point (Bayonne)-Port Richmond ferry; this line (I remember this ferry clearly, from when I was quite small; it wasn't closed down until the early 1960's, some 30-odd years after the Bayonne Bridge opened) used the same open-deck diesels that ran on the company's other crossings ("SPICA", DENEB", SIRIUS", "ALTAIR", "VEGA", and the "CAPELLA")

The "IRVINGTON" and "PIERMONT", both of a slightly different design, ran on the former SIRT Tottenville crossing from 1948 through 1963.

On a related note, PS also operated the busy 125th St.-Edgewater ferry until 1943, when they sold the line to ELECTRIC FERRIES, which operated it until 1950.

Interestingly, the newer diesel-electric boats on this line later went on to serve the 69th St. Ferry, until that line closed down in late 1964.....

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat May 04, 2019 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Staten Island bus routes (the "BUS ROUTE HISTORY" is of particular interest, here).......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bus_routes_in_Staten_Island
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A rare (circa-1930's) view showing the original wooden SIRT station at Tottenville, before it was destroyed by fire and replaced by the facility that remained virtually unchanged for decades.

As you can see, the old station layout was quite different from the "new" station that replaced it; look closely on the right, and you will see one of the SIRT's sidewheel ferries laying over alongside the wooden ferry house, which remained (albeit in a very decrepit condition) in use until the ferry crossing to Perth Amboy was abandoned in October, 1963...........

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?115406

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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N4 Jamaica




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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I did ride the Perth Amboy ferry, followed by a long walk to the Perth Amboy railroad station. I rode the Elizabethport ferry, likewise with Dad and with a long hike to another railroad station. The Port Richmond ferry was not so much a challenge, as it connected a prosperous business district to the starting point, I believe, of Hudson Blvd buses.
---
For some reason, I recall once or twice using the Elizabethport ferry with a carload of friends because it was cheaper than the toll on Goethal's Bridge. That doesn't seem reasonable, as I think the ferry had a per-person fee.
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