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Now it's time to say good-bye...to the faithful RTS.....
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also regarding electronic signs:

What is the average "life span" of one of these units?

Do these units last as long as the bus it is installed in does, or, at some point, do these have to be replaced?

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 52
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 521
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
W.B.:

Until you began posting "in depth" insight regarding the electronic signs, I truly thought that most were, for all practical purposes, of the "cookie cutter" variety

Thanks to your wealth of knowledge, I see that this is, most certainly, NOT the case!

"NYO"

BTW:

A few quick questions:

1: Did the MTA ever experiment with electronic signs in the GMC or Flex New Looks?

2: How many "variations" of electronic signage has the MTA used over the years, up to (and including) the present day?

3: What type of electronic signs do NJT's fleet use?

4: (this one's a bit off topic): When will NJT's new NEW FLYER artics start entering service; I know these will be replacing the NEOPLANS, which are now about 15 years old.

Also, what "conventional" buses will be replacing the NABI's, which, like the NEOPLANS, are to be retired in the not too distant future....

About #2: I'd say, between not only the makers of electronic signs (I seem to have noticed 3 - 4 in total up to this point, TransDot and Luminator among them) and the total dot matrices of the displays, at least ten. The first were 15 5w x 7h characters, then 75 x 7, 90 x 7 (including 23 x 7 and 14 x 28 ) and it went up from there (112 x 16, 128 x 16, etc.)

Oh, and what were on the Grumman 870's the TA and OA had, plus TA 1633-1658, would have been designated as LIDS IV from Luminator, the next generation (on 1659-1855 and 2580-2704) was "First Generation Flipdot" - major displays can be found on this page:

http://www.rollsigngallery.com/esigns/esigngallery.html

Plus these font variations:

http://www.rollsigngallery.com/esigns/lumfontgraphics.html

http://www.rollsigngallery.com/esigns/vultransdotfonts.html

I've seen on some NJT buses, the same type of electronic signs used by MTA New York City Bus (heck, even MTA Bus).
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Once again, you have MORE than proven that the realm of electronic transit signs is more "in depth" than I have previously thought; thanks, also, for these links, which I will certainly enjoy later this afternoon! Wink

On the subways, I know that the old "Brightliners" still carry side roller signs; the now-middle aged R-62's were (I believe) the very last IRT cars to have been delivered with roller curtains (I believe the 62's now have electronic signs, if I am not mistaken)

The R-68 "Hippos" were the last cars delivered for any division to have roller curtains (do the SIRT R-44's still have roller signs, or have these since been replaced by electronics?)

The very first electronic signs that I recall were those used on NJT's now-retired METRO fleet; I remember that they were difficult to read on bright, sunny days when there was a lot of glare.

Again, THANKS for both your "in-depth" information as well as the links........Wink

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Courtesy of the IRT #7 line, here are several examples of subway car signage through the decades, both roller curtain and electronic.......

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2663

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?143594

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?143474

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?98476

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roller curtains of different eras (aka: "Tales From The Underground").......

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?110698

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?129573

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?98476

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B:/All:

Enjoy this page*......... Wink

http://www.subwaynut.com/rollingstock/destination.html

(courtesy: Subway Nut)

*Note: there are, sadly, a number of "broken link" images on this page, but the images that do load are interesting........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back above ground again, here we have several examples of roller curtains and electronic signs......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?573

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?418

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?628

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1258

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1260

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?767

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of ACADEMY's old workhorses, the 3200 series METROS, seen here departing the Hoboken terminal.

I rode these buses on the rush-hour "BOULEVARD EAST" line for a number of years; they originally sported HUGE lettered roller curtains that practically SHOUTED out at you from a block away.

As I had reported earlier, none of the drivers I knew had anything good to say about the new electronic signage.

Note, here, the destination sign fairly easy to read, but not nearly as easy to decipher (especially from a distance) as the old roller curtains were.

The windshield sign is easily read, as is obvious.

Notice, also that there seems to be a problem with the "R" in "STREET"........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3356

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'lectonic signage, underground.......

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?145792

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?140606

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?109589

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting "retro" signage displayed on an R-211 mock-up......

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?150083

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Links of interest.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminator *(this is a particular interesting page)

https://transignllc.com/company/about-us/
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 52
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 521
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Transign was the original owner of the TransDot electronic signage system (their name was on the controls of the first TA and OA RTS's from 1981) but by the time the 1983 order of RTS's arrived ownership of TransDot passed to Vultron Inc.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
Transign was the original owner of the TransDot electronic signage system (their name was on the controls of the first TA and OA RTS's from 1981) but by the time the 1983 order of RTS's arrived ownership of TransDot passed to Vultron Inc.


W.B.

Thanks, as usual, for your input.

I'm curious as to how the MTA established repairs for the original GRUMMAN electronic signs, as, of course, these were the first MTA buses not to be equipped with traditional roller curtains.

Did the MTA have to hire men proficient in this field to establish a department dedicated to the repair and upkeep of these new signs?

Of course, after the last buses with roller curtains vanished, and the MTA fleet now 100% electronic sign-equipped, this would entail a fairly large repair-base, personnel-wise (also, what happened to the crews who had, previously, maintained the roller signs?)......

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 52
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to wonder if at least some of those responsible for the upkeep of old-style "roller curtains" were retrained to maintain that of the electronic signs. If so, sounds similar to the 1935-36 period at New York Railways, and 1940's with Third Avenue Railway, where some streetcar operators were being retrained as bus drivers.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6788
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
I have to wonder if at least some of those responsible for the upkeep of old-style "roller curtains" were retrained to maintain that of the electronic signs. If so, sounds similar to the 1935-36 period at New York Railways, and 1940's with Third Avenue Railway, where some streetcar operators were being retrained as bus drivers.


W.B.

Good point.

Certainly, on the subways, the introduction of new electronic signage to rolling stock had to be a true leap into the far-off future for the shop forces of the day; in the 80's, when new IRT cars began arriving (R-62's) these had roller curtains. If I am not mistaken, the R-68 "Hippos" were the last new cars to have roller curtains)

In later years, I know, the R-44/46-types were re-equipped with electronic signage; ditto the 62's.

The first time that I ever encountered any sort of electronic subway car signage was when, (surprise, surprise!!), I caught an shiny R-110A on a northbound 7th Avenue train at Wall St. (I had not even knew this train existed up until that moment!)

For the duration of my ride up to Times Square, I imagined myself on the Paris METRO!Wink

Once the famed REDBIRDS disappeared, it was only a matter of time until any and all vestiges of roller signs disappeared entirely from the IRT.

Recall, also, that the IRT was very old-fashioned when it came to car signage; the prewar cars all used "elevated style" metal plates until they were retired in the 1960's.

The 1938 WF cars only had roller curtains at the car ends; however, it was not until the R-12's/R-14's (ACF) when the ol' IRT finally adopted modern roller curtains altogether, and new IRT cars would continue to be equipped with roller signs until the arrival of the R-142's.

I thought the "flip dot" signs on the MTA's GRUMMAN fleet quite novel at first; these type signs later became quite commonplace in my area, when FLXIBLE Metros began began appearing on local NJT lines in the early/mid-80's.......

"NYO"
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