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The "Misfit" Postwar Twins
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the BoT Twin Coach. t was the one and only model 50-S and was a demo for the BoT in 1948-1949. It eventually was sold to Portage Lake Transportation.

The BoT/NYCTA got rid of the last Twins in 1956 when a switch from gas powered to an all diesel fleet became the norm.

Surface Transportation had Twin Coach bus prior to World War II, models 40, 41, 44 GDE, RDE, RLDE, LDE. After the war they did not buy any Twins for use in Manhattan and/or the Bronx.

Surface did have one Flxible-Twin Coach model FT-35-D (built in 1954) an early Fageoliner but it was eventually, in 1956, relegated to Westchester Street Transportation. The photo shows it as a demo on route Bx-12.

The Twin Coach on route "C" in the Mr, Linsky post is actually a Westchester Street Transportation bus Twin model 27-G of 1939-1942 vintage but labeled Surface Transportation.

WST had the following Twins...

#s 3000-3049, model 27-G, 1939-1942
#s 200-219, model 45-S, 1950
# 6000, model FT-35-D, 1956 (Flxible-Twin Coach -
transferred from the Bronx)

All of these buses were labeled Surface Transportation but were operated by Westchester Street Transportation.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15:

Appreciate, as usual, your posting more valuable historical bus facts and info here! Wink

You mentioned the NYCTA wanting an all-diesel fleet; this reminded me of DE CAMP's ACF-BRILL suburban C-44 fleet (my mother and I used to ride the Brills often on the long-defunct #22 [Journal Square-Caldwell] when we would visit my aunt and uncle who then lived in West Orange, back in the early/mid-1960's)

Some of their Brills were gas-powered, others were diesel.

Their Brill fleet was diverse; some were purchased new, while others came from "ATLANTIC TRANSPORTATION CO." (Garden State Lines) which DE CAMP took over in 1956.

Getting back to postwar TWIN COACHES, it would seem that they were not "the bus of choice" for the vast majority of New York/New Jersey operators.

Even then, GM buses dominated most fleets, with MACKS, WHITES, and ACF-BRILLS rounding out the rosters.

Interestingly, ATLANTIC CITY TRANSPORTATION COMPANY, back in the 50's, not only operated postwar 41-S and 45-S postwar TWINS, they also operated prewar models.

SYRACUSE TRANSIT CORPORATION purchased 20 45-S models in 1951......

"NYO"
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 529

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of misfits, what about the two REO 96HT buses that North Shore acquired and then went to the BoT when they took over NS. Talk about misfit orphans!
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought I'd include this 1946 street scene (Hamilton Ave./W.9th)...........

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?118114

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this early 1950's scene, we see a modern TWIN COACH trailing an 8400 series Wilson line streetcar......

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?31136

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCC #1044 meets a modern TWIN COACH at Grand Avenue & Brown Pl., circa-1950........

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?140718

(courtesy: nycsubway.org0
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 629
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks to MaBSTOA 15 for his explanation of Surface Twins. If the link below works, it is an Alamy stock photo showing a westbound Bx12 at the Grand Concourse. The second feature at the movie house dates from 1937. I don't know whether the street lacks traffic because of wartime or Sunday. Can someone identify the model or manufacturer of the bus? Note the rooftop intake and the length of the bus.

Link HERE
Thank you.
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kdr3bt



Age: 67
Joined: 03 Feb 2016
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:22 pm    Post subject: Post War Twins Reply with quote

In the photo with the message -
A postwar TWIN COACH is seen here swerving around a TARS Route #7 streetcar in Mount Vernon, circa-1951...
That is at the corner of 2nd Ave. & 1st Street. The Daily Argus building is the one on the right with the two pillars. The tall building in the rear is the Con Ed building (Westchester Lighting Company) on the corner of 1st Ave. & 1st Street. It is now a Westchester County office building.
To the left on the street car side is a foot bridge to the New Haven Railroad's Mt. Vernon station.
I grew up in that area and remember the Twins from Westchester Street Transportation. The Twins I remember were used for the New Rochelle to NYC Subway route. It was the letter A. The ones that WSTC had were Fageols. I never saw a Flxible.
The engines were on the side. There was no rear access (tailgate) to the engine. There were doors on each side of the bus for engine access. Someone told me they had two engines, hence the name - Twin Coach.
I was only a kid so I did not know that they has gasoline engines as opposed to diesel.
The Twins were painted beige and red, the "Surface" colors.
I would visit the WSTC yard on Garden Ave. once in a while.
WSTC had a fair amount of Fageol and Mack coaches. When the GM new looks came out, WSTC retired their Twins and Macks as they received old looks from 5th Ave. Coach.
Somewhere on the internet is a photo of a WSTC Fageol in a scrap yard.
I think the scrap yard was in Coney Island.
I would have loved to have the "Twin Coach by Fageol" shield before they were scrapped.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kdr3bt:

Many thanks for providing some really fascinating (and interesting!) "local" history, regarding the photo whose link I had posted earlier here; details like this truly give one a strong "in depth" view of what they are seeing! Wink

IMHO, SURFACE, like MABASTOA, has long been overdue for a detailed, well-illustrated published work on its history, operations, and buses.

Being a lifelong resident (62 years!) of New Jersey, I find the history of New York City-area bus operations truly intriguing and fascinating; I have certainly learned a tremendous amount of detailed historical information here from the well-versed and highly-knowlegeable experts here on the board! Very Happy

In my area of "metro area" New Jersey, postwar TWIN COACHES simply were not to be seen; the TWINS I do still recall where prewar models (I think these were Model 30R's) that were rostered by a few of the Jersey City "indiy" companies I grew up with.

These buses vanished sometime around 1966, if memory serves me correctly.

Cannot blame you for wanting one of those "TWIN" nameplate shields....I sure wouldn't mind having one in my collection myself! Wink

So much history......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on TWIN COACH.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Coach

(be sure to check out the postwar TWIN that operated in Switzerland!)

Some good photos, here....... Wink
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fellows:

Though we are discussing the BoT/NYCTA postwar Twin Coaches here, it is also well to remember that many also operated overseas as well.

These buses operated in Switzerland, Holland, Turkey, and Brazil.

The Brazilian city of Belo Horizonte was the only foreign city to operate postwar TWIN trolley buses.

Interestingly, a prewar Model 40 once operated in Berlin, and was the only TWIN to operate in that city........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An excellent, detailed page on TWIN COACH; there is much to be delved into here, including diagrams, photos, etc.......

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/t/twin_coach/twin_coach.htm

(courtesy: Coachbuilt)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting bit from the "Coachbuilt" Twin Coach page:

".....the first diesels were delivered in 1935, and the firm's hybrid diesel-electric buses were popular with many New York City-area operators, who aquired 300 units prior to World War Two....."

'NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 52
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 392
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
For (windshield) comparison only......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1544

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

Also begs the question as to whether the front windshield of GM's "New Looks" were inspired, at least in part, by Twin's.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6098
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
For (windshield) comparison only......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1544

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)

Also begs the question as to whether the front windshield of GM's "New Looks" were inspired, at least in part, by Twin's.


W.B:

I must admit, I never thought of the GMC New Look's windshields being inspired by those of the postwar TWINS, but, then, again, who knows?

The postwar TWIN COACHES indeed had a much more "forward looking" front end treatment than any of the other transit buses did at that time.

In speaking of the postwar TWINS, it is interesting to note that at least some of the postwar buses were built at a plant in Cheektowaga, New York, that the company had purchased.

Another interesting fact is that while TWIN COACH built many prewar buses with diesel engines, gasoline engines were the choice for the new postwar buses.......

"NYO"
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