BusTalk Forum Index BusTalk
A Community Discussing Buses and Bus Operations Worldwide!
 
 BusTalk MainBusTalk Main FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups BusTalk GalleriesBusTalk Galleries   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

NYCTA/MTA fareboxes
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> New York City Buses
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4:

As usual, EXCELLENT postings!!!! Wink

Speaking of streetcars and loops, when PSNJ began converting to one-man by the later 1920's, the majority of HUDSON Division lines had loops; this was when most HUDSON Division cars were being converted to single-ended cars.

Again, no problem, as most HUDSON Division lines had loops.

Oddly, on PSNJ's ESSEX Division, by 1938, only two streetcar lines (the outer end of the #7 CITY SUBWAY, and the outer end of the subway-surface #23 CENTRAL) had stub terminals.

The other remaining lines had loops; the City Subway terminal at Penn Station also had loops)

And yet, the remaining car lines on the ESSEX Division were all double-ended cars!

Getting back to fare boxes, PSNJ/TNJ, during the afternoon rush hours, "manned the gates" at both Penn Station and Broad St. (outbound platform only) on the Newark City Subway; a couple of PS men would set up a few Johnson "D" fareboxes and this allowed passengers to pay before heading downstairs to the PCC cars.

I last remember this scenario in the early 70's.

These "fare agents" also sold transfers...........

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4:

In regards to your timely little "joke" earlier, regarding single-ended buses....... Wink

Believe it or not, DOUBLE-ENDED trolley buses DID indeed exist (and operate!) in Liege, Belgium! Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

These highly unusual little vehicles entered service in 1938, and were built by BROSSELL.

There is a photo of one of these two vehicles in: "TROLLEY BUSES 1913-2001 PHOTO ARCHIVE" by William A. Luke.

These little oddballs HAD to be a hoot to watch in operation (driving must have been interesting as well!) Shocked Rolling Eyes

"NYO"

*AND, this same Belgian operation ALSO operated several THREE-AXLE, DOUBLE-ENDED trolley buses!!!!!!!!!! Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Shocked Shocked

Four of these highly-unusual vehicles entered service in 1936 (a photo of one of these Belgian three-axle double-enders can also be found in the aforementioned Luke work)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While on the subject of streetcars, fare boxes, etc., it is interesting to note that some Brooklyn streetcars featured, instead of the usual fare box, a "nickle-in-the-slot" turnstile at the front entrance, next to the motorman.

The 6000-6199 series cars (built by BRILL and OSGOOD BRADLEY) were equipped with, of all things, turnstiles at the front entrance; upon boarding, a passenger would deposit a nickle into the turnstile's slot, and the thin metal arms would turn, allowing the passenger to enter the main body of the car.

A bell would clang as a passenger deposited his/her fare; boarding passengers were funneled to the turnstile by a metal railing.

These cars were all OOS by the early 1950's........

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is interesting to note that, in Oliver J. Ogden's book on FACCo., while there are number of rare "behind the scenes" views, there is not only no mention of fare collection, there are also no photos showing the conductors at work on the older FACCO. buses.

This is direct contrast to the countless British publications on London's buses through the decades, where you will find any of a number of good vintage photos showing the conductors issuing tickets.........

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting page on bus conductors.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_conductor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be interesting, to say the least, to see a historical photo page such as this (dealing with the duties of London bus conductors in years past) on FACCo.'s dedicated and dapper fare collectors.......

https://www.1900s.org.uk/1940s-bus-conductors.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 656
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going by to the topic of the Newark City Subway: I vaguely recall Independent Subway hefty (old style) turnstiles in use for outbound patrons at Penn Station and Market Street. As with the Brooklyn streetcar turnstiles, the fare rise from a nickel messed up the use of turnstiles on the City Subway, and they were replaced by personnel working fare boxes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
Going by to the topic of the Newark City Subway: I vaguely recall Independent Subway hefty (old style) turnstiles in use for outbound patrons at Penn Station and Market Street. As with the Brooklyn streetcar turnstiles, the fare rise from a nickel messed up the use of turnstiles on the City Subway, and they were replaced by personnel working fare boxes.


N4:

Recall that the Newark City Subway was not extended to Pennsylvania Station until 1937 (the same year that the H&M was rerouted into the new facility); previously, Broad St. (now Military Park) was the terminal for the underground streetcars, between 1935 and 1937.

At the time that the NCS opened, PSNJ was using tokens (I have one in my collection)

By the 1960's, the tokens were long gone, and this was when I remember PS "fare agents" using Johnson fare boxes at the mezzanine level at Penn Station and at platform level at Broad St. (outbound platform only)

Getting back to fare boxes, regarding FACCo. buses, in the aforementioned Ogden book, though there are a few interior views of "Queen Mary"-type buses, none show the fare box (I am curious what model would have been used on these buses)

I also recall (especially on PS/TNJ buses) a small (but HEAVY) boxy metal "register" that was mounted overhead near the driver; I can remember seeing "IN" and "OUT" displayed; I THINK these were used to ring up transfers, with the driver yanking on the cord.

I also remember these on the NCS PCC's many years ago (there was a sizeable "stockpile" of these relics in a storeroom at the NCS repair shop under Penn Station, back in the 70's)

Likely, they all were sadly destroyed long ago, except for one or two that might have been saved......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An early publicity shot of FACCo's new #1707:

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1382

I've included this photo in our discussion as this "modern" single-decker had both pros and cons, regarding fare collection.

The pro was that the Company no longer needed conductors aboard each bus.

The con was that the driver now also had to be responsible for making sure each boarding passenger paid their fare; previously, that responsibility was left to the conductor, allowing the driver to concentrate only on the road ahead.....

'NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Through the 1920's, a number of transit buses were built that had rear (not center) doors; some of these buses utilized the rear door as an exit, while other companies stationed a conductor at the rear door, and passengers paid the conductor as they boarded, and then left via the front doors.

There was a massive, 8-wheeled transit bus that saw service in Toronto, back in the 1920's; this hulking monster, indeed, needed the services of a conductor.

Fare collection devices, and methods, I have long felt, have been largely ignored by all but the most astute transit historians (this also includes streetcars)

Such an integral fixture of transit operations, yesterday, today, and tomorrow, fare boxes/registers/ticket machines are more than deserving of a "study" dedicated to their rich and interesting history.....

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.....collecting fares.....not to mention DRIVING this huge monster (courtesy of GOODYEAR and Peter Witt!).....HAD to be interesting, to say the least....... Rolling Eyes

http://www.theoldmotor.com/?p=139984

Source: The Old Motor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of fare boxes (and registers), though I have not been to the Transit Museum in nearly 17 years, I always thought about the Museum having a permanent exhibit dedicated solely to FACCo.

Whatever relics from the Company that still survive today (DO any survive?), along with historic photos, would make for an interesting and long-overdue "tribute", if you will, to what was New York's most prestigious bus company.

IF one survived today, one of the little machines used by FACCo. conductors aboard the old "open toppers" would indeed make for a great exhbit all on its own.

Just my 2 1/2 cents worth........

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following is from my copy of "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT AUTHORITY OPERATING BUDGET PROPOSAL:1988-1991"

".........by July, the entire bus fleet will be equipped with new electronic registering fare boxes. At the end of 1987, approximately 80 per cent of the fleet were retrofitted with this new equipment. On some routes, the new fare boxes increased revenue by as much as 4 per cent......."

A photo corresponding with this depicts: ".........Bus operators are being trained to use the new electronic registering fare box. By the summer of 1988, all buses will be equipped with this fare box......"

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 7000
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the same MTA report:

"..........by the end of the year, new procedures for the handling and control of paper transfers throughout the Rapid and Bus System will be implemented....."

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 631

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The electronic fare boxes referred to are the GFI "Faremasters"

Thanks for the post, this indicates that the use of the Johnson/Keene K-25 came to an end in 1989 within MaBSTOA & NYCTA.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> New York City Buses All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group