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NYCTA/MTA fareboxes
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 604

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Johnson fare box site you mentioned is very informative however, it does not answer your question regarding what boxes the MTA used through the years.

I hope the following helps.

(The pictures are not of actual MTA boxes but they do represent the models they have used.)

Photo #1... All of the old look buses (GM and Mack) that the NYCTA operated used the Johnson model "D". The boxes were electrically motorized and did not accept quarters. They had three dial sets: cash, pennies, and s. tokens. The drivers all had coin changers, mostly the Johnson Universal changer with several barrels, mostly quarter, dimes, nickels(2 barrels) & pennies. Some had a funnel at the top of the penny barrel for quick loading.

The original boxes were hand cranked therefore the nickname "coffee grinder"

The earliest GM new looks, in 1959, had these boxes but were quickly replaced by the...

Photo #2... Johnson (later Keene) model K-25. The largest coin size accepted by these boxes were quarters. They had three dial sets: fare box number; cash; s. tokens. The fare box number was also placed, at a later date, on the side along with each depots 3 letter initials.

At first, these boxes had coin return drawers for the drivers. Note the open pedestal under the coin return drawer. When MaBSTOA & NYCTA went to exact fare the pedestal was replaced by a pedestal with a locked box...

Photo#3... notice how the front of the box changed with the closed pedestal. The rectangular shaped chrome piece was for the drivers daily trip report. Unlike the photo, the OA/TA boxes only had three dials.



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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 604

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Continuing with the photo history...

Photo #4... is the back side, facing the entrance door, of the K-25 with locked box, showing the drawer-vault in the open position.

These pedestals were replaced with the Keene vacuum collection system. These boxes remained in service for the first year or so of the RTS buses.

Photo #5... Cover of the New Keene Revenue Collection System

Photo #6... The K-25 were replaced by the GFI "Faremaster" electronic fare box. They accepted coins only and were mounted on a vacuum pedestal.

I have not seen any of these boxes for sale on EBay or anywhere else. I wonder if the MTA still has them in a warehouse?



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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 65
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 604

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And finally, the Faremaster were replaced by the current box, the Cubic Integrated Fare Unit. They are mounted on the vacuum pedestals from the Faremaster. They accept MetroCards, all coins including dollar coins but no pennies and no dollar bills.

Coming soon to this post the fare boxes of the private operators, stay tune...



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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6695
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shocked Shocked Shocked

Cannot ask for more after this AWESOME historical presentation.......THANKS MUCH for taking the time to post not only these SUPERLATIVE photos, but also, taking the time to also share info on these once-commonplace machines! Wink

The Johnson "D" was the one I knew from my long-ago 1960's childhood into adulthood on the old North Hudson and South Hudson Boulevard lines (NHBL and SHBL), as well as the old, well-remembered local "indies" in the greater Jersey City-area (LAFAYETTE & GREENVILLE, CENTRAL AVENUE, BERGEN AVENUE, MONTGOMERY & WEST SIDE)

I can still hear that distinctive, cheery "chukka-chukka-chukka-chukka" of those old "coffee grinders" today!

The last "D" I ever saw in service was being used on an ex-WAMATA Flex New Look, that was being used on the former NHBL #1, between 1995 and 1997; I rode this bus to the PATH tubes at Journal Square each morning, for many months; I am still sorry I never took any photos.

That veteran old fare box obviously served aboard several generations of retired NHBL buses!

The newer "K-25" boxes remind me of what I remember NJT using on the former PS/TNJ#21 (now #181) and the ACADEMY's #22 HILLSIDE; I cannot say if these were "K-25's", but they do closely resemble what I remember here, quite awhile back.

The photo of the "NEW KEENE REVENUE COLLECTION SYSTEM" blew my mind; have NEVER seen a picture like that one before (man, the dapper "bus men" of that era sure looked like airline pilots!)

You mentioned eBay; several years ago, I DID see a "D" (in very nice shape) up for sale; needless to say, the price was astronomical (as were the shipping charges!), so all I could do was drool and dream on! Sad

How well I remember growing up in the early and mid-60's, when Mom and I "rode the buses", and no fare (from what I can remember) seemed to be no more than a quarter (or thereabouts)

I KNOW I'm showing my age, now! Confused

Again, THANK YOU for taking the time to post these great photos and also to share some interesting historical info....... Wink

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 655
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original post by NYC Omnibus addresses NYCTA and MTA fare boxes, omitting the Board of Transportation era (ending with the TA in 1953) and the New York privates. Are you interested in going backward?
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6695
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
The original post by NYC Omnibus addresses NYCTA and MTA fare boxes, omitting the Board of Transportation era (ending with the TA in 1953) and the New York privates. Are you interested in going backward?


N4:

I would, actually, enjoy a "time trip" regarding the fare registers/boxes used on New York City buses from the earliest FACCo. days up to, and including, the present.

One question I did bring up earlier was what sort of fare collection device did FACCo. use in the two-man crew days......did crews, perhaps, use an OHMER register to ring up fares?

This is also something I am quite interested in......

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 655
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someplace on BusTalk there is a photo of the hand-held dime collector used on Fifth Avenue double-deckers in my childhood. After you took your seat, the conductor would hold the device near you, and you would insert a dime. A bell sounded lightly, and the dime stayed in the device until he was ready to move the coins to his changer.
---
Such buses had no fareboxes, as the conductor did all the work roaming the vehicle and watching the doors. I'm uncertain who opened and closed the doors, the driver or the conductor.


Last edited by N4 Jamaica on Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 655
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm uncertain about this, but I think the 5-cent Omnibus routes used twirling Johnson fare boxes, and they may have twirled by electricity or by air hose. What is remembered is the 1948 switch on Surface Transportation. Previously, Third Avenue streetcars and Surface buses used something like the Johnson Model J PHOTO HERE.
---
I vaguely recall the Surface switch to hand-twirled Johnsons with the arrival of the 7-cent and 8-cent fare. I doubt they were purchased new from Johnson, as they looked like junk. In other words, Omnibus routes already had fare boxes that would count pennies, but TARS and Surface had to replace their nickel-and-dime boxes. A further memory: Before 1948, if an ignorant kid inserted a penny, the box would ring twice and count it as a dime, and the motorman would get angry.
---
I cannot find the FACCO dime collector photo on BusTalk, but looking at eBay I must emphasize that the device had no crank, and it did not print tickets. It was much more simple and handy. It counted dimes. The U.K. conductor ticket printers were far more complex.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6695
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4:

Greatly appreciate these great historical "tidbits".....thanks for posting here! Wink

When my mother (may she rest) was growing up in the 1920's, she recalled a number of family visits into the city, and riding on the top deck of the open-top FACCo. double deckers.

She remembered the conductors, but could not recall the fare collection method.

The old Johnson "D's" I grew up with in New Jersey during the 1960's had a tiny bulb illuminating the interior of the glass coin box; after the coins were dropped in, I remember the driver hitting a lever, which would actuate the mechanism that dropped the coins down below, and started the fare box's sequence.

I most remember these on the NHBL buses (Routes #'s 1 and 5) that ran on Hudson (now Kennedy) Boulevard, just steps away from our old apartment building in Union City.

I remember the wheel on the side rotating while the coins were being sorted inside.

Sometimes, especially in the later years, I remember a driver having to crank by hand, if the electric mechanism was out of order.

Man, it's all so long ago now........

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 655
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But some of those boxes on New York streets were only hand-cranked. I think it sorted pennies, nickels, dimes, maybe quarters. The Johnson J photo I linked on previous post said, "Nickels, dimes, quarters," but I don't recall quarters accepted on TARS.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N4 Jamaica wrote:
But some of those boxes on New York streets were only hand-cranked. I think it sorted pennies, nickels, dimes, maybe quarters. The Johnson J photo I linked on previous post said, "Nickels, dimes, quarters," but I don't recall quarters accepted on TARS.


N4:

Again, great historical info; speaking of TARS, I am now wondering if all TARS streetcars were two-man crews until the end, or were the cars all one-man by that time.

It makes me wonder if any of the ex-TARS fare boxes ever were installed on any of the replacement ST buses, or, if the replacement buses simply used new boxes from the start......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6695
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as a sidenote, in James Greller's book on NYC's buses and trolley coaches (1946-1958) there are quite a few interior shots showing the "pedestal" Johnson "D" model boxes.

In "Honeymooners" publicity photos, there are several that show Gleason and cast inside #2629, with Gleason behind the wheel, and a "pedestal" Johnson "D" box in clear view.....

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnson "D" boxes on New York rapid transit......

Interestingly, I recall have reading where, back in the days of the old Bronx "Dyre Avenue Shuttl (E. 180th St.-Dyre Avenue), where fares were collected on-board the trains after the change booths along the line closed for the day.

I recall seeing a photo long ago showing a Dyre shuttle conductor handling fares with (if memory serves me correctly) of a Johnson "D" box that was mounted on a post inside the car.

This was when the line was still served by old elevated gate cars and deck-roof IRT "Hi-V" subway cars.

I also recall reading awhile ago, that a similar fare collection was used off-hours on the Myrtle Avenue elevated (if I am correct), after the change booths closed for the day; I believe that the fare box was mounted on a stanchion inside one of the "Q" cars.

I cannot delve any further in detail on this, but this is what I can recall reading about........

"NYO"
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 655
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Again, great historical info; speaking of TARS, I am now wondering if all TARS streetcars were two-man crews until the end, or were the cars all one-man by that time.

It makes me wonder if any of the ex-TARS fare boxes ever were installed on any of the replacement ST buses, or, if the replacement buses simply used new boxes from the start......

"NYO"

I don't know when in the 1930's TARS went from two-man to one, but that is when they introduced a door treadle at the rear, which used to be the point of entry. In other cities, conversion to one-man caused new signs "Front entrance car," but I was too young for that changeover in NY. During WWII, the only two-man crew was on Fifth Avenue double deckers. Conversion to motor coach was halted during the war because of rubber shortage. The postwar motorization came on November 10, 1946. I recall riding that 59th Street crosstown as a streetcar (with fairly new equipment), and that is almost two years before TARS/Surface needed fareboxes that could accept pennies. I am fairly certain that the new buses had the old streetcar J models. Remember that the streetcars were double ended, so the operator would just twist the farebox off the pedestal and reinstall it at the other end. The J model was particularly lightweight. After 1948, I recall someplace in the four boroughs that the motormen had to lug a Johnson with a twirler (that is, a heavier model) from front to back when changing ends.
---
(Warning: Stupid joke coming. True, all TARS streetcars were double ended. True, many Brooklyn carlines had loops and used single-ended equipment. True, the city wisely purchased single-ended buses when the Board of Transportation got stuck running bus lines.)
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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 655
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as Dyre Avenue is concerned, I rode that line at night in 1968-1969. I am fairly certain that the conductor placed the farebox on a regular hard plastic seat adjacent to the door. Maybe they used stanchion placement earlier.
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