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Transit buses with rear windows/ETB's, etc.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6095
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject: Transit buses with rear windows/ETB's, etc. Reply with quote

The last buses I can remember in my area with rear windows were the GM and Flex New Looks.

On the Flex units, I still recall how you could tell that the rear window area had once been much larger, but, then, later on, was filled in to greatly reduce the window area (was this done to add extra support for the roof-mounted a/c unit?)

My question is this: why did rear windows on buses fall out of favor?

Back in the day, it simply did not enter your head that, one day, buses would no longer have rear windows......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1189
Location: Queens, NY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couple of reasons...main reason was newer buses required more and more pollution control, that sort of took over the area above the engines. Another reason is simply cost...no real need for rear windows. Now, some of the newest buses have redesigned their mechanical's to make a smaller rear window an option on some model's....
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6095
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Couple of reasons...main reason was newer buses required more and more pollution control, that sort of took over the area above the engines. Another reason is simply cost...no real need for rear windows. Now, some of the newest buses have redesigned their mechanical's to make a smaller rear window an option on some model's....


traildriver:

Makes sense to me....thanks! Wink

A real "oddball" rear window/engine arrangement were used on the late 30's TWIN COACHES (such as the 23-R and 30-R); the rear windows were but mere slits (very high up), and, when the engines needed work, the entire rear of the bus would be opened (including the window area) like a huge hatch.

I have seen one photo of one of these buses undergoing such work in an old book I have on the Chicago Surface Lines.

QUITE unusual, to say the very least....(!!)

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of high and narrow rear windows, do you recall the "rifle slots" on the back of the St. Louis Car Co. trolley-coaches?

Another coach with high and small rear windows was the old Western Flyer Canuck P-41's
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6095
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Speaking of high and narrow rear windows, do you recall the "rifle slots" on the back of the St. Louis Car Co. trolley-coaches?

Another coach with high and small rear windows was the old Western Flyer Canuck P-41's


traildriver:

Yes, I have seen many photos of both types!

Recall, through the 50's, most modern transit/suburban/highway coaches had curved rear windows (remember the curved rear windows of the early VW Beetles!)

WHITE buses, however, had a more angular rear window, with only curves at the edges.

Interestingly, I have a tin windup GREYHOUND bus (red and yellow!) that sports the SAME high rear windows as the P-41!

Remember, too, the GREYHOUND 719 had three small rear windows, unlike the later 743, that featured the more traditional twin rear windows.

Such windows (IMHO) added to the overall sleekness of the bus...... Wink

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: Queens, NY

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the prize for "ugliest" rear windows.....IMHO it's a tie between the
MC-6, and the MV-620-D

https://www.google.com/search?q=mci+mc-6+super+cruiser&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS739US739&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjHqKrDyuDdAhUCh-AKHeW4BHkQ7Al6BAgEEA0&biw=1920&bih=938#imgrc=dE8_3NCRylZQVM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=mci+mc-6+super+cruiser&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS739US739&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilh7rnyeDdAhVJmeAKHZrVDyEQ7Al6BAgEEA0&biw=1920&bih=938#imgrc=iQJ7VtBeXIF_iM:


https://www.google.com/search?q=mack+mv620&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS739US739&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=bFHPocHEFqF1lM%253A%252CZt_GQvti4YO7fM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kTNgfHlvqssuKESOhVJtlwSlSTjBA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiw7ei7yeDdAhWGT98KHVYpCs4Q9QEwBHoECAYQBg#imgrc=bFHPocHEFqF1lM:
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wink

"UGGGGGGGGG-LEEEEEEEEE" all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shocked Shocked

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, recall some Old Look suburbans (with a roof mounted a/c unit) that had a split rectangular window instead of the usual two windows?

I know PSNJ rostered them (these were TDM-5106's)

GM only built 110 of them (1958); in addition to PSNJ, ORANGE & BLACK also operated them, as well as RED & TAN........

The ex-PSNJ and O&B coaches I can remember still in service into the mid-70's.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rear views of Brooklyn's trolley buses are very hard to find; here, in this rare 1954 view, we get an excellent perspective on the St. Louis electric bus "rifle slot" rear windows.

These windows are very identical to those I mentioned earlier on prewar TWIN COACH transits.....

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4013

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the one! I remember them in my old 'hood when I was a young child in Brooklyn....
I remember the driver's occasionally having to go out and re-wire the trolley poles when the had to go too far out around an obstruction. I guess they had a limited range on battery power, for those occurrence's...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6095
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
That's the one! I remember them in my old 'hood when I was a young child in Brooklyn....
I remember the driver's occasionally having to go out and re-wire the trolley poles when the had to go too far out around an obstruction. I guess they had a limited range on battery power, for those occurrence's...


traildriver:

The dual-powered (gas/electric) ASV's (All-Service Vehicles) operated by PSNJ until the late 1940's (ESSEX and HUDSON Divisions) had the distinct advantage over a "conventional" trolley bus, as they were dual powered, and the driver could easily detour by switching to the gas engine.

However, things could get VERY interesting when an ASV found itself stuck in traffic under a switch (these overhead switches were actuated by either the bus' power being shut off or remaining on; situations like this could (and often did) meant that the ASV would take the wrong route.

At least, it would have been easy enough (though time-consuming) to get back on his usual route, by utilizing the gasoline engine....

"NYO"
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have any idea of how far the electric only trolley coaches could travel on their batteries?
I am guessing probably less than a mile...just to get around garages's, or in the case I cited above.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Do you have any idea of how far the electric only trolley coaches could travel on their batteries?
I am guessing probably less than a mile...just to get around garages's, or in the case I cited above.


traildriver:

Note the "far reaching" poles of the PSNJ ASV; also, note the bus facing the camera does not yet have the familiar PS herald and nose wings applied; this would date the photo to about 1937, when these ASV's were still quite new (note that the old streetcar tracks are still visible in this photo, not long out of use when this pic was snapped)

The "15 PASSAIC" was a streetcar line until 1937; buses replaced the ASV's about 1948.

Note the signs for the 125th St. and BAYONNE ferries in the rear window of the ASV heading away from the camera; until 1943, PS operated these ferry lines........

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_9164_bvwy.htm

(courtesy: trolleybuses.net)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:48 pm; edited 2 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Do you have any idea of how far the electric only trolley coaches could travel on their batteries?
I am guessing probably less than a mile...just to get around garages's, or in the case I cited above.


traildriver:

This one I cannot answer, as I simply do not know the answer; I would imagine that your guess sounds about right.


PS used the ASV's under wire on regular runs; however, they were "off wire" many times on charters.

I have seen COLOR film footage of several rows of them on a charter to the 1939/1940 World's Fair, with the elevated IRT Flushing line El in the background......Wink

"NYO"
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems strange that they would use the ASV's so far from home territory.
I'm sure it would be highly illegal, but wonder if any ASV driver's were ever tempted to "borrow" some electricity from 'foreign' trolley wires to save gas along the way....I imagine if caught, that would go over like a lead balloon... Laughing
That is, if in fact the overhead power supply, and the hardware was even compatible...
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