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Tommorrow's "classics"? Your opinions are welcome!
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5258
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Tommorrow's "classics"? Your opinions are welcome! Reply with quote

Fellows:

We loved the Old Looks and New Looks; we grew up with them, we rode them, photographed them (and, in some cases, drove them)

In some sense, we all took them for granted with the time honored: "Oh, they'll be around forever" (I too, am guilty of this)

The last Old Look in my area vanished in 1986; the last Fishbowl in 1997.

With their sleek, timeless, "All American" styling, it is easy to see why these buses are now highly regarded by bus enthusiasts and historians.

A number of us here, including yours truly, I will admit, are less than enamored with most of today's buses (in New York and elsewhere)

Some of us equate today's fleet as "oversized milk cartons", "giant millipedes" , and other, not-so-flattering monikers.

It took me many years to "warm" up to the GRUMMAN (and METRO) as well as the RTS.

Today, the GRUMMAN/METRO buses are history, and the RTS is now poised to disappear from city streets.

With today's New York buses, I am wondering what (if any) buses will one day be considered a "classic", historically significant, a vehicle worthy of preservation.

Your opinion?

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1129
Location: Queens, NY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYO--

While I appreciate your sentiment, buses than and now pretty much fall into the "form follows function" school of design. Today, perhaps only the RTS does not look "like the box it came in", at least compared to the other's...

Only a bus employee or enthusiast could readily tell an Orion from a Flyer, or a Gillig. Years ago, anyone on the street could identify a Scenicruiser.... Smile
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5258
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
NYO--

While I appreciate your sentiment, buses than and now pretty much fall into the "form follows function" school of design. Today, perhaps only the RTS does not look "like the box it came in", at least compared to the other's...

Only a bus employee or enthusiast could readily tell an Orion from a Flyer, or a Gillig. Years ago, anyone on the street could identify a Scenicruiser.... Smile


traildriver:

Agreed! Wink

Recall the era of the Old Looks; that was the era when streamlined body curves were in vogue; today, it is (obviously) more inexpensive to repair and/or replace flat body panels, instead of dealing with complex curves (recall the FLXIBLE Clippers, Visicoaches, and Airporters!)

I remember HATING the GRUMMANS (and later METROS) when they began replacing the older buses; it was a number of years before I started to "warm up" to them.

They are gone now in my area well over a decade, and, I must admit, I do miss those boxy-looking buses!

Today, there are only three types of modern buses (all NJT) I can identify in my area: the NEOPLAN, the NABI, and the MCI.

Every so often, I can recognize a VAN HOOL on a charter run.

But, other than that, I really cannot identify bus models/builders as I used to be able to do so easily.

Time, marches on, I guess....... Rolling Eyes

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 51
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 311
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a soft spot for the Gulton Luminator electronic front and side sign displays on first the Grummans, then half of the GM RTS's. Wasn't as enamoured of the TransDot displays. Apparently, there was a formula of which RTS's got which display - one of the companies was on buses with a T8W- prefix, another set on those with a T8J- prefix.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5258
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
I had a soft spot for the Gulton Luminator electronic front and side sign displays on first the Grummans, then half of the GM RTS's. Wasn't as enamoured of the TransDot displays. Apparently, there was a formula of which RTS's got which display - one of the companies was on buses with a T8W- prefix, another set on those with a T8J- prefix.


W.B.:

You reminded me of the ACADEMY Metros that I commuted on, back in the 90's; they originally had HUGE roller curtains that could be read a block away.

The ones on the "BLVD. EAST" rush hour-only route read "HOBOKEN PATH TUBES".

When these were replaced with electronic signs, the drivers HATED them!

Instead of just flicking a switch to turn the curtain to the correct reading, they now had to punch out a code on a keypad; too many times to count, at the beginning of the line on an AM run, I would have to stand outside and make sure that the driver had a correct reading!

I guess the moral here is :"If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it!

(I had a LOT of fun with my position as "Sign Reader Assistant", and I always rode for free!) Wink Wink

IMHO, however, the New Look was the most modern and timeless transit bus ever built; I still cannot believe it has been 20 years sincew I last saw or rode one....... Sad

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5258
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some examples of "classics"...........take yer pick, gentlemen.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3969

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3984

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?290

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?282

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1386

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1369

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5258
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I eventually "warmed" to the old GRUMMAN/METRO, I really have no problem with a "boxy" bus, excepting that mostly white bodies (think NJT, here) or "funky", bizarre wraps do nothing (IMHO) to improve the overall appearance of said bus.

Yes, I know that paint IS expensive, but, I am sure, there is a method of "painting" such vehicles that is both cost-effective and pleasant to look at.

Design-wise, I HATE the new Proterra buses that SEPTA is now receiving; the fronts resemble some sort of giant insect (like many modern light rail units); the oversized windshields, unlike the New Look of yesterday, just seems too "far out"/bizarre (again, this is only my own opinion)

Of course, we must be realistic; bus builders are certainly not in business to keep we enthusiasts happy.......they are, of course, building buses to efficiently and safely carry passengers from Point "A" to Point "B".

Still, I do appreciate a bus that LOOKS like a BUS, and not a "TELEPORTER 4000" from a galaxy far, far away......... Rolling Eyes

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1129
Location: Queens, NY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at that first image of the Mack, and noted the location...it seems like the photographer was standing right in front of the old Capital Greyhound Terminal....
Sure wish he'd have turned around and snapped a couple of photo's of it...
It is so hard to find any good shots of it from the street, or inside.
Currently located on that location is the Gershwin Theater garage, if I figured correctly...

*

From a distance, about the only way to tell you are behind a bus, and not a truck, is the sides tapering in slightly going towards the roof, although the Orion low floor model's are pretty straight sided...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5258
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
I looked at that first image of the Mack, and noted the location...it seems like the photographer was standing right in front of the old Capital Greyhound Terminal....
Sure wish he'd have turned around and snapped a couple of photo's of it...
It is so hard to find any good shots of it from the street, or inside.
Currently located on that location is the Gershwin Theater garage, if I figured correctly...

*

From a distance, about the only way to tell you are behind a bus, and not a truck, is the sides tapering in slightly going towards the roof, although the Orion low floor model's are pretty straight sided...


traildriver:

Agreed; sure would have been great if said photographer turned around and snapped a few Hounds! Wink

Old photos like these truly are "time machines", they are more than worth their weight in gold.

The "indy" companies in my area when I was growing up in the 60's rostered several models of MACKS, as well as Old Looks and WHITES; to this day, I remember the MACK as a "tough, street-wise" bus, that rumbled along the streets of Gotham with an almost cocky, prize-fighter swagger, that seemed to shout out to motorists: "GET OUDDA DA WAY! I'M A MACK!" Shocked

Without a doubt, the Old Looks were also "Patton Tanks" in their own right.....functional yet sleek!Very Happy

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5258
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "Rocky Graziano" of the bus world....... Wink

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4002

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3965

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3966

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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frankie



Age: 71
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 699
Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great topic! I remembered the opportunities of photographing St. Louis buses back in the '70's and '80's thinking that there's nothing special about them only to become iconic classics of the past. One would have learned from that, but here we are again with the same unchanged mindset.

Just like when you can ID a car back in the past just from it's shape or distinctive features, buses were the same way. Today cars as well as buses have such homogenized looks about them that they are almost indistinguishable unless you read the emblem especially with the automobile.

I say go ahead and photograph as many buses as you can. As the old adage goes, it's best to have and not need it than wanting it and not having it.

Frankie
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5258
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankie wrote:
Great topic! I remembered the opportunities of photographing St. Louis buses back in the '70's and '80's thinking that there's nothing special about them only to become iconic classics of the past. One would have learned from that, but here we are again with the same unchanged mindset.

Just like when you can ID a car back in the past just from it's shape or distinctive features, buses were the same way. Today cars as well as buses have such homogenized looks about them that they are almost indistinguishable unless you read the emblem especially with the automobile.

I say go ahead and photograph as many buses as you can. As the old adage goes, it's best to have and not need it than wanting it and not having it.

Frankie


Frankie:

Well said!

I can look at a photograph taken 50 or more years ago (say, of a parking lot) and be able to identify virtually every auto in the lot; today, I could not even BEGIN to tell one from the other, even if my life depended on it! Shocked

Too, the buses of old also had much individuality in their sounds (engines, brakes, etc.); even as a kid, before I knew the different makes of buses, I could still (with my eyes closed) tell just what kind of bus was approaching just by sounds (and what SWEET sounds they were!)

Both Old Look and New Look suburbans also had their own distinctive sounds.....sounds I can still hear in my memories today.

I also miss the not-at-all-long ago days when TRIBORO, STEINWAY, and GREEN BUS were still "indy" companies";they added both color and variety to the "mix", if you will.

And, of course, who could ever forget those handsome NYBS New Looks.......... Wink

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5258
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember when.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3364

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3452

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5258
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Indy" days........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?410

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?412

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?418

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2252

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2258

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3363

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5258
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Indy" days, GREEN BUS-style....if only our good friend and mentor Mr. "L" was still here with us to comment on these old views.........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?426

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2231

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?461

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?471

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?499

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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