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Two on FACC.........
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6085
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are several more vintage views......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?797

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?795

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?794

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1251

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1252

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 52
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 389
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The post before the one before this were from among the first group of buses (3301-3555) ordered in 1963 for the then-new MaBSTOA - 132nd and Amsterdam depots had buses allotted for Manhattan routes, West Farms was definitive for some of the Bronx routes, probably Kingsbridge as well. Their front roll signs initially had a way different layout (which signs would later be recycled for use on later orders).
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6085
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
The post before the one before this were from among the first group of buses (3301-3555) ordered in 1963 for the then-new MaBSTOA - 132nd and Amsterdam depots had buses allotted for Manhattan routes, West Farms was definitive for some of the Bronx routes, probably Kingsbridge as well. Their front roll signs initially had a way different layout (which signs would later be recycled for use on later orders).


W.B:

You sure know your stuff........ Wink

Given that FACCo. had a line that ran into Queens (#15), I long have wondered if the Company ever contemplated a route into downtown Brooklyn.

Like Queens, there were subway options (of course the trains WOULD be faster than a bus battling rush-hour traffic) but again, it is interesting to think of a FACCo. route serving Brooklyn.....

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6085
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few more old views.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?835

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?836

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?847

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?871

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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X-Astorian




Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 113
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:


Given that FACCo. had a line that ran into Queens (#15), I long have wondered if the Company ever contemplated a route into downtown Brooklyn.

Like Queens, there were subway options (of course the trains WOULD be faster than a bus battling rush-hour traffic) but again, it is interesting to think of a FACCo. route serving Brooklyn.....

"NYO"


The 15 route to Jackson Heights was no random extension. The Queensboro Corporation which was developing the area as a restricted, planned, garden community agreed to cover FACCO's deficit in running the line for six years. Without this guarantee, the company might not have come to Queens. The subway and el options, while half the FACCO fare, did not take riders down Fifth Avenue.

Source: "Jackson Heights - A Garden in the City" pages 110-111.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

X-Astorian wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:


Given that FACCo. had a line that ran into Queens (#15), I long have wondered if the Company ever contemplated a route into downtown Brooklyn.

Like Queens, there were subway options (of course the trains WOULD be faster than a bus battling rush-hour traffic) but again, it is interesting to think of a FACCo. route serving Brooklyn.....

"NYO"


The 15 route to Jackson Heights was no random extension. The Queensboro Corporation which was developing the area as a restricted, planned, garden community agreed to cover FACCO's deficit in running the line for six years. Without this guarantee, the company might not have come to Queens. The subway and el options, while half the FACCO fare, did not take riders down Fifth Avenue.

Source: "Jackson Heights - A Garden in the City" pages 110-111.


W.B.:

You brought up a very good point that neither the subway nor the els took riders down Fifth Avenue (streetcars and subways were indeed lucky they were even allowed to CROSS over and under it!)

Fifth Avenue, of course, was always quite "ritzy" and therefore, it is a no-brainer as to why "The Upper Echelon" did not not want noisy elevated trains along their "tony" thoroughfare, nor did they want clanging streetcars or subways that would rattle the windows and the foundations of their mansions
and businesses.

I recall reading awhile ago about certain Chicago Motor Coach Company routes, back in the heyday of the open-toppers, were the only public transportation available in "upper class" residential areas where noisy, rattling elevateds nor clattering streetcars were not at all welcome........

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"........a group of men (boarding the first FACCO. bus to Queens in 1925) had witnessed the growth of Jackson Heights from a barren waste east of the Queensboro Bridge into one of the most distinctive residential areas in the City, with four- and five-story apartment buildings, whose residents were employed in midtown Manhattan, but had no direct rapid transit service to their jobs....."

From Oliver J. Ogden's book "NEW YORK FIFTH AVENUE COACH COMPANY"

Recall, too, that the first segment of the new IND subway would not open until 1932, and, at that, it would not be until 1933 that the first IND service to Queens (Roosevelt Avenue) began.

The IND line to 179th St., Jamaica opened for service in 1937.

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 52
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 389
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figured there was a financial enticement behind FACCo's expansion into Queens, not just with the 15 - Jackson Heights but also the 16 - Elmhurst Crosstown line, that the reasons weren't altruistic or "from the bottom of their hearts." But it's nice to hear the specifics of how it all came about.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6085
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
I figured there was a financial enticement behind FACCo's expansion into Queens, not just with the 15 - Jackson Heights but also the 16 - Elmhurst Crosstown line, that the reasons weren't altruistic or "from the bottom of their hearts." But it's nice to hear the specifics of how it all came about.


W.B.:

Agreed.

It is important to recall, that, at the time that FACCo. started service to Queens in 1925, there were as many (if not more) areas that was as semi-rural as there other sections of the borough which were already "built up".

Staten Island, of course, was the most rural borough at that time, and, was the only borough not accessible by subway from Manhattan (even today, there is still no physical link between lower Manhattan and Staten Island)

No wonder the Staten Island Ferry is such a vital lifeline!

Had FACCo. survived into more recent times as an independent company, not affiliated with the MTA, it would have been quite interesting, to say the least, what their equipment and operations might have been like, through the years.

It would have been very interesting to see the paint schemes of the buses through the 60's, 70's, and beyond, had the Company remained "indy".....

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6085
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New Looks making their appointed rounds on "The Avenue".......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?850

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?852

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?893

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?903

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 52
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 389
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pic 850 with OA 3318, shows how 132nd Street was one of the original depot assignments for these first buses ordered for MaBSTOA in 1963 . . . though the sign for the 4 route was a few months afterward (according to the May 1972 Motor Coach Age article on OA's 10th anniversary, when 3301-3555 first arrived around June 1963 4 was still based out of Kingsbridge depot [as it had from the moment of the OA takeover] and did not get reassigned to 132nd [where it had been from FACCo days] until Sept. 29, 1963).
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B. Fishbowl wrote:
Pic 850 with OA 3318, shows how 132nd Street was one of the original depot assignments for these first buses ordered for MaBSTOA in 1963 . . . though the sign for the 4 route was a few months afterward (according to the May 1972 Motor Coach Age article on OA's 10th anniversary, when 3301-3555 first arrived around June 1963 4 was still based out of Kingsbridge depot [as it had from the moment of the OA takeover] and did not get reassigned to 132nd [where it had been from FACCo days] until Sept. 29, 1963).


W.B.:

Your always detailed input only further drives home the point that we are LONG overdue for a good, solid published work on the history and operations of MABSTOA.

Surely, there are not only many other photos out there (especially older views), but also, other historians/enthusiasts like yourself who already have so much knowledge on the subject.

Too, when it comes to documenting FACCo. history, it is almost as though the New Looks never existed; yet another valid reason why a detailed MABSTOA work is sorely needed........ Wink

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6085
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the day (1950's).......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3382

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3383

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1379

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6085
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More (New Look) nostalgia on the "Culture Loop" service......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?908

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?911

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?915

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 6085
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on FACCo.........

That the Company had the monopoly (if you can call it that, with no other bus company competing) of running buses on 5th Avenue speaks many volumes; after all, the only other "public" transportation on 5th were taxis.

From its horse-drawn beginnings, the Company served a rider base that was far more "well-to-do" than those that utilized streetcars, elevateds, and, after 1904, the subways.

That many tourists also availed themselves to the Company's services to "see the sights" also tells that the FACCo also was well-known in the tourist brochures of that era, a number of which were issued by FACCo. itself........

"NYO"
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