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"Giant Insects" vs "Shoe Boxes"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 5469
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further on bygone bus weight restrictions (this entry is quite unusual!).........

In 1953, FLXIBLE delivered 16 Visicoaches to NORTHLAND GREYHOUND LINES of Minneapolis; these buses were unique in that they had a set of retractable rear wheels.

These retractable wheels were needed because, at the time, Minnesota had strict weight restrictions imposed on a number of highways that NORTHLAND operated on.

In the spring months when the ground began thawing out, these extra wheels (supposedly) gave the buses better weight distribution.

After the spring thaw, these extra wheels were retracted until the following spring.

Source:

"FLXIBLE INTERCITY BUSES" (William A. Luke)

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From "THE BUS WORLD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BUSES" (Ed Stauss):

".............the initial Old Look models available in 1940 were 28, 30, 31, and 35 feet in length and 96 inches wide. In later years, the maximum dimensions were increased to 40 feet in length, and 102 inches wide......"

"........one exception was an order of 100 buses for the CHICAGO MOTOR COACH COMPANY, which, at 41-1/2 feet in length were the longest GM old Looks produced....."

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: Queens, NY

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GM PD-4903, "Super Luxury Liner", also had a fully retractable tag axle, that could be raised or lowered by the driver. When raised, it was hidden behind a door. It could also be removed entirely, and its 'well' converted into another baggage compartment.

Modern Prevost coaches, can raise their tag wheels just slightly off the ground, to save from dragging them around tight turns, or to temporarily gain traction on drive wheels for accelerating on ice, or climbing icy hills.

Other makes of three axle coaches can also take the weight of their tags for this purpose, although the tires remain on the road, just lightly...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
The GM PD-4903, "Super Luxury Liner", also had a fully retractable tag axle, that could be raised or lowered by the driver. When raised, it was hidden behind a door. It could also be removed entirely, and its 'well' converted into another baggage compartment.

Modern Prevost coaches, can raise their tag wheels just slightly off the ground, to save from dragging them around tight turns, or to temporarily gain traction on drive wheels for accelerating on ice, or climbing icy hills.

Other makes of three axle coaches can also take the weight of their tags for this purpose, although the tires remain on the road, just lightly...


traildriver:

I had totally forgotten about this; thanks for reminding me! Wink

Three axle coaches became commonplace in the 50's with the introduction of the SCENICRUISER.

Later in the decade, the "three axle era" came to TRAILWAYS, with the introduction of the first EAGLE coaches.

Recall, also the three axle SCENICRUISER clone built by C.D. BECK.

Three-axle commuter coaches became commonplace in the late 80's here in New Jersey, when NJT took delivery of its first MCI coaches ("The Jersey Hounds", in my lingo!)

Earlier, the Prevost CHAMPIONS, operated by SOMERSET, had the distinction of not only being the first non-domestic bus to be ordered by a US company, but also, being the first three-axle coach in NJ commuter service.

Another early (1960's) three-axle PREVOST was the PANORAMIQUE.............

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this 1968 view, we see the first SOMERSET Prevost Champion, en route to New Jersey, crossing over onto US soil at the Canadian border...........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1518

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A latter day- view of one of SOMERSET's four Prevost CHAMPIONS, patiently awaiting the next call of duty, alongside an equally-classic Fishbowl (1982)......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1522

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Three Axle Action", MTA-style...................

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?293

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?295

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?296

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following is from a vintage GREYHOUND manual in my collection:

""OPERATING MANUAL: PD 4501R"

"REAR AXLE LOAD DISTRIBUTION"

"........'DRIVE AXLE LOADED' switch on control panel to left of operator provides a means of transferring additional load to the driving axle when additional driving traction is required........"

"........when switch lever is moved upward, circuit is completed to two solenoid valves which exhaust part of the air pressue out of trailing axle air suspension. This places additional load on the driving axle, providing increased traction......"

"........this system should ONLY be used only in case of emergency when increased traction is required by the driving wheels.........."

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: Queens, NY

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
The following is from a vintage GREYHOUND manual in my collection:

""OPERATING MANUAL: PD 4501R"

"REAR AXLE LOAD DISTRIBUTION"

"........'DRIVE AXLE LOADED' switch on control panel to left of operator provides a means of transferring additional load to the driving axle when additional driving traction is required........"

"........when switch lever is moved upward, circuit is completed to two solenoid valves which exhaust part of the air pressue out of trailing axle air suspension. This places additional load on the driving axle, providing increased traction......"

"........this system should ONLY be used only in case of emergency when increased traction is required by the driving wheels.........."

"NYO"


And that is how, basically, they do that today on MCI and other makes... Smile
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget that the first Eagle coaches dating back as far as 1956 for the 'pilot' prototype, were designed and ordered by Continental Trailways, from Kassbohrer-Setra in West Germany.

Mercedes-Benz sold some buses for use as inter-terminal shuttles in the Port Authority operated NY and NJ airports...not sure of exactly when those came.

Also in the mid to late sixties, Carey Transportation became the US distributor for a mid-sized "Intercontinental" coach built by "Carey-VanHool" in Belgium.

And...Mercedes Benz had sold some of its model 0-302 Tour Coaches to Gray Line of Boston, and Washington Sightseeing Co., again in the late sixties.
IIRC, Cliff Robertson's character is seen riding in them, in the movie "Goodbye Charlie".... Smile

Those 0-302's were very stylish with all stainless steel exterior's, and curved side windows...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Am truly enjoying this fascinating discussion!!!!! (and your detailed input makes it all the more informative) Very Happy Wink

It is sad that the majority of bus riders (local or otherwise) have not the slightest inkling of how fascinating the bus industry is; as enthusiasts, we can see the industry in an entirely new light, one not seen by the "average Joe or Jane".

Look at how successful GM products were, back in the day; back in the 60's, PREVOST clearly was inspired by the New Look when it introduced its 45-passenger transit coaches, which clearly was New Look-inspired!

I guess imiation IS the SINCEREST form of flattery! Wink

These PREVOST New Look-alikes were delivered to British Columbia Hydro in 1965.

Prevost also marketed the inter-city "LE NORMAND" in the early 60's; here again, GM-influence was obvious, as the coaches did bear some resemblence to both the 4104 and the 4106.

The "PANORAMIQUE", also, seemed inspired by the GM highway coaches of that era.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All:

At one time, most of us (yours truly included) thought of the big MCI's as either highway coaches or tour buses.

But, with their introduction into many commuter services by the late 80's, the MCI, I feel, has gotten to be much more familiar to the general public, far more so than it did in the days when they were primarily highway coaches.

By the 70's, the PREVOST coaches were themselves becoming more and more commonplace here in the States.

After SOMERSET purchased the first PREVOST Champions in 1968, 16 other NJ companies began purchasing the Champion.

Later on, the Le Mirage and Astral models began becoming familiar sights on our highways.

Today, of course, PREVOSTS are far from being uncommon; here is also a company with a rich and diverse history, virtually unknown to the average rider.

Back in the 50's, PREVOST intercity buses had the same basic "streamlined ruggedness" that so characterized the American highway coaches of that time; in fact, in the late 40's, PREVOST built a line of city and suburban buses which were virtually identical to the then-popular ACF-BRILL C-44's of that day...........

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevost_Car

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Coach_Industries
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
traildriver:

Am truly enjoying this fascinating discussion!!!!! (and your detailed input makes it all the more informative) Very Happy Wink

It is sad that the majority of bus riders (local or otherwise) have not the slightest inkling of how fascinating the bus industry is; as enthusiasts, we can see the industry in an entirely new light, one not seen by the "average Joe or Jane"..

"NYO"


I am enjoying it, too, thank you...

I agree that it is sad to see what I perceive as the decline in interest in transportation history and current events by younger people in general.
I have belonged to various rail, bus, air, and sea hobby groups, and each year the organization demographics grow older, with less and less younger people interested in getting into the hobby.
It seems the younger generation is more into their electronic play things...
Always a few exceptions, here and there, but overall, not.

Indeed, this website seems to be getting less and less used...not sure how its owner can sustain it. Not sure if there is any way to promote its growth, but I try telling anyone that shows any interest in it.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
traildriver:

Am truly enjoying this fascinating discussion!!!!! (and your detailed input makes it all the more informative) Very Happy Wink

It is sad that the majority of bus riders (local or otherwise) have not the slightest inkling of how fascinating the bus industry is; as enthusiasts, we can see the industry in an entirely new light, one not seen by the "average Joe or Jane"..

"NYO"


I am enjoying it, too, thank you...

I agree that it is sad to see what I perceive as the decline in interest in transportation history and current events by younger people in general.
I have belonged to various rail, bus, air, and sea hobby groups, and each year the organization demographics grow older, with less and less younger people interested in getting into the hobby.
It seems the younger generation is more into their electronic play things...
Always a few exceptions, here and there, but overall, not.

Indeed, this website seems to be getting less and less used...not sure how its owner can sustain it. Not sure if there is any way to promote its growth, but I try telling anyone that shows any interest in it.


traildriver:

I cannot believe that you are harboring the very same thoughts that I have had for too long now.

IMHO, Facebook (of which I am not involved in) has indeed been hurting "traditional" forums such as this; this, coupled with the younger (and not so younger) generation are virtually addicted their iPads, smartphones, tablets, kindles, whatever, and this can be readily seen in many aspects of the hobby today.

It seems (at least to me) that ever since the sad loss of our own illustrious and highly respected Mr. Linsky (a true and knowlegeable gentleman, RIP) this forum has indeed slowed down from what it was a few years back; I would indeed hate to see this forum depart the 'net; it is, IMHO, the BEST bus forum out there, and the guys who post here are truly knowledgeable on the subject of buses.....and often quite amusing at times! Very Happy Very Happy

I have a very good friend who has been a member of an East Coast streetcar museum for decades; he has told me that many of the older members (those who can actually recall the cars in regular service) are now getting older and not in the best of health, or, sadly, simply passing on to that great carbarn in the sky. Sad

Think about it; there is a generation (or two) today that has never even ridden on an Old Look, a Fishbowl, or a PCC, except, perhaps, at a museum or some sort of special event.

Too, my friend also said that there is much talk of the lack of "new blood" coming into the hobby (especially bus/streetcar-wise)

This is a great hobby, and a very rewarding one.

Buses (and all public transport vehicles) have been my strongest passion all my life; it indeed gives me a great feeling know that (for now, at least) that I can still discuss one of my favorite subjects (buses!) with other like-minded fellows, here at BusTalk.

I've truly learned so much from the fellows here, and am grateful for the chance to learn more about buses, past and present.

Let's hope we can keep on chuggin' along........ Wink

"NYO"
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