|
BusTalk A Community Discussing Buses and Bus Operations Worldwide!
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
JimmiB
Age: 81 Joined: 19 Apr 2011 Posts: 516 Location: Lebanon, PA
|
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It would be interesting to learn more of the Jersey City operations. My favorite streamlined passenger train was the Reading Railroad's Crusader, which operated on CNJ trackage from Philly to Jersey City terminal. From my information passengers were then transferred by ferry to NYC. Wonder if they use the B&O coaches? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22536 Location: NEW JOISEY
|
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
JimmiB wrote: | It would be interesting to learn more of the Jersey City operations. My favorite streamlined passenger train was the Reading Railroad's Crusader, which operated on CNJ trackage from Philly to Jersey City terminal. From my information passengers were then transferred by ferry to NYC. Wonder if they use the B&O coaches? |
Up until 1958, B&O buses met incoming trains at the CNJ's Jersey City terminal; they loaded on a driveway that had once been occupied by tracks #'s 2 and 3, many years before (after 1958, this former bus driveway was used as a parking area until the terminal shut down in 1967)
After loading, the buses would drive through the terminal headhouse and directly onto a waiting CNJ ferry. (Until 1942, ferry service also ran to W. 23rd St., Manhattan)
Once the ferry had docked at either Liberty St. or W. 23rd St., the B&O buses would head for several B&O motor coach stations/ticket offices in Manhattan and Brooklyn.
As I had mentioned previously, buses at Jersey City used a turntable to reverse direction, after having deposited thier westbound passengers at trainside.
In 1958, the B&O abandoned all passenger service to New York (Jersey City), and the bus fleet was sold off.
The B&O buses were for the exclusive use of B&O passengers only; READING passengers, like those of the CNJ, simply debarked from thier respective trains and boarded a CNJ ferry for the short voyage across the Hudson.
Until about 1964, the RDG operated trains between Harrisburg and the CNJ terminal at Jersey City; both the "CRUSADER" and the "WALL STREET" continued to run to Jersey City until 1967, when the Aldene Plan rerouted all CNJ passenger trains from Jersey City to Penn Station, Newark, thus rendering the 20-track waterfront terminal useless.
The ferryboats to Liberty St. were also shut down at this time.
After the Aldene Plan, both RDG trains continued to run to Newark as RDC consists, until they were finally discontinued in the early 1980's.
As a lifelong CNJ fan, one who always had a tremendous interest in the once-bustling rail passenger terminals along the Hudson River waterfront, this is a topic that greatly interested me.......
'NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:26 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22536 Location: NEW JOISEY
|
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
JimmiB wrote: | It would be interesting to learn more of the Jersey City operations. My favorite streamlined passenger train was the Reading Railroad's Crusader, which operated on CNJ trackage from Philly to Jersey City terminal. From my information passengers were then transferred by ferry to NYC. Wonder if they use the B&O coaches? |
Here is a timeless 1950's view of a long line of B&O WHITES awaiting the arrival of the next B&O train.
After the passengers have transferred from the train to the buses, the motor coaches would then drive straight through the station headhouse (after first crossing the train concourse), and then drive on board a CNJ ferry for the short crossing to Manhattan.
Today, nearly 50 years after this massive terminal closed down, only the original 1889 station building and the 1914 train concourse have been restored as part of Liberty State Park.
The two level (1914) ferry terminal was demolished in 1983, and the historic 1914 Bush train sheds (the largest of thier kind) are crumbling and rusting in the salt air, and the tracks replaced by weeds and underbrush.
I knew this vast terminal well as a kid growing up during the 60's; I'm truly grateful that I can remember when it was still in operation......
"NYO"
http://mrohrer.home.mindspring.com/images/bobusjc.jpg |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22536 Location: NEW JOISEY
|
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Further to B&O passenger service to New York:
Even though the B&O discontinued all passenger service to New York (Jersey City) in 1958, they did continue to operate the SIRT until 1971, when the line went over to the MTA.
As mentioned earlier, there were a number of B&O motor coach depots in Manhattan up until 1958, including Columbus Circle and Rockefeller Center.........
"NYO" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2458 Location: South Florida
|
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Back around 1970, I used to ride the RDC Wall Streeter from Newark to Philly's Reading Terminal, and then on to Pottsville. The RDC simply reversed at Philly. It was a long ride on an RDC! They did have a bar car serving various snacks, but only between Newark and Philly, IIRC.
The B&O bus I believe was actually operated by a contracted operator, rather than an actual railroad subsidiary.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22536 Location: NEW JOISEY
|
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
traildriver wrote: | Back around 1970, I used to ride the RDC Wall Streeter from Newark to Philly's Reading Terminal, and then on to Pottsville. The RDC simply reversed at Philly. It was a long ride on an RDC! They did have a bar car serving various snacks, but only between Newark and Philly, IIRC.
The B&O bus I believe was actually operated by a contracted operator, rather than an actual railroad subsidiary.... |
traildriver:
Pre-Aldene (1967), it was not uncommon to see RDC's used on weekend runs of the "CRUSADER" and the "WALL STREET".
However, after 1967, CNJ passenger power was no longer serviced at the Communipaw Engine Terminal at Jersey City; with access to a turntable no longer an option, the RDG simply made both aforementioned trains RDC's.
The new CNJ coach yard at Harrison, a mere skeleton of the vast passenger yards at Jersey City, offered no turning facilities for non-push pull consists, making the RDC consists a natural for these trains.
AFAIK, I think I recall some discussion here long ago (in a thread I had started) that there was some connection between the FACC and the B&O bus operation (perhaps the B&O buses were stored/serviced at the FACC garage.....9th & 54th?)
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22536 Location: NEW JOISEY
|
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
traildriver/all:
Did a little searching, and found the old B&O bus thread I started quite awhile back, in 2012.
According to our own Mr. Linsky (BTW: where has this always-knowledgeable gentleman been hiding as of late?) in the later B&O train connection bus era, the WHITES were driven by FACC drivers under contract to the B&O.......
"NYO"
(PS: Thanks once again, Mr. "L"!) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2458 Location: South Florida
|
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | traildriver/all:
Did a little searching, and found the old B&O bus thread I started quite awhile back, in 2012.
According to our own Mr. Linsky (BTW: where has this always-knowledgeable gentleman been hiding as of late?) in the later B&O train connection bus era, the WHITES were driven by FACC drivers under contract to the B&O.......
"NYO"
(PS: Thanks once again, Mr. "L"!) |
Yes...I was wondering where Mr. 'L' has been, too....hope all is well....
So FACC supplied the driver's? Did the B&O actually own the equipment?
In the case of The AT&SF California bus operations...the buses were owned and operated by AT&SF subsidiary Santa Fe Trail Transportation Company, which also operated a network of trucklines....
The Southern Pacific had disposed of its Pacific Greyhound Lines, as well as its Pacific Electric subsidiary. Later on, Western Greyhound provided all train connection services under contract for its former owner...
In Montana and possibly some other places, Northern Pacific sub. NP Transport owned and operated train connection bus services. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NorthShore
Age: 76 Joined: 18 Mar 2012 Posts: 113
|
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
To be precise, Fifth Avenue Coach owned and operated Gray Line Sightseeing of New York. Gray Line operated the B&O operation under contract. FACCO sold the Gray Line operation in 1942. Therefore past 1942 the B&O operation was operated strictly by Gray Line not FACCO.
As an aside, Gray Line of NY also operated NY-Atlantic City service in conjunction with Greyhound. Therefore in 1937 Gray Line was able to purchase and operate YC 743's for this service.
FACCO also operated Champlain Coach (NY-Montreal) and Colonial Coach (Boston-Montreal) in conjunction with Greyhound with 743's. FACCO sold these lines also in 1942, ending all interstate bus service by FACCO. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22536 Location: NEW JOISEY
|
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Fellows:
Recalling the Long Island WF bus photos I had posted links to earlier:
The LIRR was very "gung-ho" about getting fairgoers to use the trains; the LIRR billed itself as "YOUR STEEL THRUWAY TO THE FAIR".
Also, large roadside billboards were plastered just about everywhere on Long Island, featuring Guy Lombardo (this REALLY dates the era!):
"GUY LOMBARDO SAYS: ' TRAVEL EASY TO THE WORLD'S FAIR ON THE LONG ISLAND RAILROAD' "
Getting back to buses, If I remember correctly, there was also service to the Fair from the GWB terminal.........
"NYO" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2458 Location: South Florida
|
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
NorthShore wrote: | To be precise, Fifth Avenue Coach owned and operated Gray Line Sightseeing of New York. Gray Line operated the B&O operation under contract. FACCO sold the Gray Line operation in 1942. Therefore past 1942 the B&O operation was operated strictly by Gray Line not FACCO.
As an aside, Gray Line of NY also operated NY-Atlantic City service in conjunction with Greyhound. Therefore in 1937 Gray Line was able to purchase and operate YC 743's for this service.
FACCO also operated Champlain Coach (NY-Montreal) and Colonial Coach (Boston-Montreal) in conjunction with Greyhound with 743's. FACCO sold these lines also in 1942, ending all interstate bus service by FACCO. |
Thankyou very much for all of that information. So B&O did not own or operate the fleet dedicated to their train connection service.
I had no idea that FACC at one time was involved in those intercity routes that eventually were absorbed by Greyhound. I guess the connection between FACC, Yellow Coach, Yellow Cab, General Motors, Hertz, Goodyear, Greyhound, and who knows who else (National City Lines, perhaps?) was quite extensive at one point....reminds me of the film: "Who shot Roger Rabbit"..... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22536 Location: NEW JOISEY
|
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
All:
As the FACC (and the B&O!) have gotten into this discussion (nothing wrong it that!) I am now thinking of FACC offering direct express service to the Fair from Manhattan (or the Bronx) had the company still been in business in 1964.
I would imagine thier newest buses being used in this service; with so many companies in the greater NY area offering direct service to the '64 Fair, it is easy to imagine FACC offering a similiar service, for the duration of the Fair.......
"NYO" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22536 Location: NEW JOISEY
|
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here's an Old Look photo worthy of inclusion here, even though it relates to the '62 Fair held at Seattle.......
http://pinterest.com/pin/31947478579260330/
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22536 Location: NEW JOISEY
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22536 Location: NEW JOISEY
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You can attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|