BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Lastly......

"......the buses impoved rather quickly (after the First World War). They became larger and larger for more carrying capacity. Then came the gas-electric bus, wherin a gasoline motor generated electricity, which, in turn, operated the wheels without the need to shift gears......"

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

On this page you'll find a photo of YELLOW "Z" ASV and experimental GMC ASV D900.

As can bee seen here, there is indeed a sharp contrast between the two generations of dual-powered coaches here!

From the personal reminisces of veteran PS ASV operators (which I posted in several earlier posts here) it is obvious that drivers/operators of that era HAD to be made of STERN stuff, especially when having to deal with an often-quirky ASV on a daily basis!

The early PS drivers who drove the "conventional" motor buses of the day, sported a distinct "military" look, and no wonder, considering the conditions under which they had to tame the hulking gasonline-driven beasts then in vogue!

These hardy "iron men" wore highly polished puttees around whipcord trousers (GREYHOUND's drivers were once similiarly attired); such outfits were more than necessary, for the heat from those front-end motors was terrific, especially with those aluminum floor plates!

No power steering....no power brakes.....no automatic transmissions.....no air-conditioning......indeed, PS operators (as well as thier counterparts serving other companies) HAD to be TOUGH, in order to be asble to handle the savage, snorting behemoths they drove each working day to earn a paycheck......

http://www.thecanteen.com/subway02.html

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

This classic 1940's Newark street scene shows YELLOW "Z" #9929 running on the #5 KINNEY.

As is clearly evident here, the "Z"-type ASV's were tough-looking machines.......a vehicle that any motorist in his right mind would NOT want to get into an altercation with!

Note that streetcars still operating on this thoroughfare (note single wire and rails), sharing the territory with those fearsome beasts known as the "Z's".......

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_9929_underthewire.htm

(courtesy: Tom'sTrolleybuses.net)

[N4 Jamaica]

Many thanks for your post about All-Service Vehicles running on 5 KINNEY in Newark. The photo you link to could be anywhere on the outbound route (to 14th Street) where it briefly traveled on a diagonal such as Springfield Avenue. Most buildings at that intersection have been leveled, some replaced.
---
The low route number (5) intrigued me. Indeed, the route from downtown Newark on West Kinney Street and several others, then north to East Orange dates back to 1890, according to Edward Hamm's book.
---
In 1940's visits to the City Subway at Penn Station, the blanked-out stairway signs for Springfield cars raised questions for me, as Dad and I traveled the other subway routes before they were abandoned. Twenty years later, I wanted to ride the full length of the Springfield bus, but never got around to it. This week, your link to a photo of an All-Service Vehicle on Kinney has gotten me to explore that zigzag route on Google Street view and attempt to match photos to present locations. On page 95, St. Stanislaus church on Irvine Turner Blvd (formerly Belmont) is shown on the last day of 5-KINNEY streetcar service. On Sundays, the parish has two Polish Masses and one in English, with the 5-KINNEY bus passing hourly.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

N4:

You are most welcome....my pleasure, my friend!

I can still remember seeing the old wire hangers still in place under the Penn Station portals (bus lanes) formerly used by surface streetcars and the ASV's (this was in the early 70's)

There were also old stairways that led up from each bus platform to sealed doors that opened into a long-closed passageway that connected to the Penn Station mezzanine.

That main door was also sealed, and there was an old indicator board still in place for the different bus routes (this area might have been closed off since the later 60's, when crime began to become a problem)

At the exit from the escalators for inbound City Subway passengers, there was a long-closed change booth (made of tile) between the escalator exit portals; this booth dated back to the days to when these platforms could be used by outbound subway-surface cars passengers as well

Back in the 70's, its lights were still illuminated (although it was then only being used for storage)

The three main subway-surface car lines were:

#21 ORANGE (certain cars operated via W. Market; those cars used the Warren St. ramps)

The #21 ORANGE cars branched off the #7 CITY SUBWAY at the Orange St. grade crossing

The #23 CENTRAL used the ramps/trestle at Norfolk St. (a long-closed interlocking tower was still located here in the 70's)

The #29 BLOOMFIELD used the ramps at the Bloomfield Ave. station.

The first of these lines to be converted to bus was the #23 CENTRAL, in December of 1947.

The #21 lasted through 1951, and the #29 (the last of the subway-surface lines) was converted in March of 1952.

ASV operation only lasted 12 years (1935 through 1947); the ASV seemed very much to be a "gap vehicle", bridging the gap between the "old time" streetcar and the modern diesel bus.

It was interesting that PS wanted to revive the ASV concept (albiet on a much scaled-down basis) for the City Subway, which would have included the continuing useage of the old subway-surface lines, with the new dual-powered GMC coaches utilizing wires only until they left the subway,

But, as the City of Newark refused to pay for the paving over of the City Subway, PS dropped the new ASV project, and decided to buy 30 ex-TCRT PCC cars to replace the old deck roof and Compromise roof streetcars.

The very last "subway buses" continued to use the old Cedar St. subway to and from the lower level of the PS terminal until the later 60's; the last ASV ran through this subway in 1947, and the last streetcar (#43 JERSEY CITY) in 1938........

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

N4:

These two circa-1935/1937 photos show the last of PS's unique one-man open cars operating on the #25 SPRINGFIELD line.

The first photo shows one of these cars about to pass under the Penn Station portals.

These were among the last opens to operate on PS rails......

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?118340

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?118341

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Compare this circa-1946 photo of a "modern" YELLOW ASV at Penn Station with the 1930's view showing a "SPRINGFIELD" line open car, found in the previous post.

Note the coach is wearing the new PS gray.

Not too long after this timeless photo photo was snapped, PS pulled the plug on all ASV operations........

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_9273_newark_bv.htm

(courtesy: Tom'sTRilleybus)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

ASV action on the "25 SPRINGFIELD" line, before the coaches were repainted into the modern PS gray, which they would not carry for very long......

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_026_newark_bv.htm

(courtesy: Tom'sTrolleybuses)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

ASV #9134 is here encountering some heavy traffic while holding down a run on the "#49 UNION"; this line was the first PS streetcar line converted to ASV operation, in September of 1935.

PSNJ's 2200 series streetcars, painted in the handsome "De Luxe" scheme had been operating the line when the ASV's replaced them in 1935; all cars were scrapped at the ill-famed Passaic Wharf, a once-busy PS facility, which, by the later 1930's, was well known to area trolley fans as a "streetcar slaughterhouse"......

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_9134_newark_bv.htm

(courtesy of Tom'sTrolleybuses)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

ASV #9314, now wearing PS gray, is seen on the "5 KINNEY", in this classic late 1940's scene.

Note, on the right, an elderly PS deck roof streetcar, operating on the "#23 CENTRAL" subway-surface line (this line went to bus in December of 1947)

The very last of the old deck roof streetcars (#7 City Subway) outlasted the ASV's by nearly seven years.....

A lot of transit nostalgia, here......

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_9314.htm

(courtesy: Tom'sTrolleybuses)

[N4 Jamaica]

NYO: Thank you for all this interesting material.
---
However, let me present an alternative explanation for the inbound change booth at Penn Station.
Quoting from your post of December 14, 8:41 p.m.: "At the exit from the escalators for inbound City Subway passengers, there was a long-closed change booth (made of tile) between the escalator exit portals; this booth dated back to the days to when these platforms could be used by outbound subway-surface cars passengers as well."
I suggest that this change booth dates from the widespread use of "Pay as you enter" and "Pay as you leave" flip signs inside the windshield of PSNJ streetcars. Several routes that used the subway had two fare zones. For the first part of the inbound trip, fare (often a nickel) was collected as passengers boarded. When the streetcar entered the city of Newark, or wherever the fare zone was, the operator flipped the sign to "Pay as you leave," and collected nickels only from exiting passengers. At Penn Station (as currently at St. George, Staten Island), all exiting passengers had to pay to get out. Inbound patrons on 7 CITY SUBWAY only paid to leave the system. I vaguely recall turnstiles at inbound Broad Street station for the same reason. The Broad Street turnstiles were the heavy style of four horizontal arms used on the older NY systems; they were not the lightweight Perry turnstiles.
---
I don't know where to find old newspaper records showing the fare increases after World War II. At some point, the system got more complex than flipping a sign and using turnstiles. Later, I recall that fare collection was done by an agent at the bottom of the stairs at inbound Bloomfield Avenue during the morning rush. That was after the Pay as You Leave system was abolished.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

N4:

It's my pleasure.....you are quite welcome!

For a lifelong PS fan like myself, I'm greatly enjoying all the research and old photos!

Also, allow me to thank you for the "alternate explanation" on the tiled changed booth between the City Subway escalators at Penn Station.

Also, you mentioned the turnstiles; back in the 60's, when I was growing up, I well recall these at both Penn Station and Broad St.; if I am not mistaken, I believe these were only manned during the rush hours.

From what I can remember, these turnstiles were equipped with heavy railings and Johnson fareboxes (again, I'm going back at least 50 years)

At Penn Station, there was also a 1930's-era change booth on the mezzanine level; long out of use, it has since been preserved and is still there today.

Too, into the 70's, there were large electric sign boxes hanging from the ceiling, mounted at intervals along the outbound platform at Broad St.

A PS City Subway worker I knew back then told me that each one was once illuminated, and designated where each respective line's car would stop.

As the connecting surface lines were abandoned, these sign boxes were no longer needed, but still hung on for many years.

I also recall one near the end of the outbound #7 CITY SUBWAY platform at Penn Station; really a shame that these old sign boxes were not picked up by one of the electric railway museums.

Recall, when the CITY SUBWAY opened in 1935, Broad St. (now Military Park) was the downtown terminal; a crossover and interlocking tower were located between Broad St. and the site of the new Penn Station terminal (which opened in 1937)

Speaking of fares and fare collection, the "#49 UNION" line (to ASV in 1935), according to a book I have on the line (published by the NRHS) had several fare zones:

PS TERMINAL to HILLSIDE WYE: 5 cents

HILLSIDE WYE to ELIZABETH-ROSELLE CITY LINE: 5 cents

ELIZABETH-ROSELLE CITY LINE to CENTER ST., GARWOOD: 5 cents

CENTER ST., GARWOOD to JERUSALEM RD.: 5 cents

JERUSALEM ROAD to TERRILL ROAD: 5 cents

TERRILL ROAD to JEFFERSON AVE,: 5 cents

JEFFERSON AVE. to LINCOLN BOULEVARD: 5 cents

LINCOLN BOULEVARD to EAST MAIN ST., BOUND BROOK: 5 cents

("PAY ENTER" and "PAY LEAVE" in both directions; three inside fare collections (JOHNSON fare boxes used) en route were made by by motorman in each direction)

(this fare schedule dated from Feb. of 1932)

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

This late 1930's photo showing the approach to the upper level of the PS Terminal in Newark, was obviously taken during an off-peak hour.

Also, it appears to have been taken in the waning years of PS streetcars using the terminal; no streetcars can be seen in this photo, and one lone ASV can just be glimpsed on the right.

Buses more than dominate this scene; streetcar wires and rails are still in place.........

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_003.htm

(courtesy Tom'sTrolleybuses)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

A YELLOW "Z" ASV stopping at the former streetcar waiting shelter after just exiting the portal of the Cedar St. Subway, en route from the PS Terminal to Journal Square.

The #43 was converted to ASV in the late 1930's, and had the dubious distinction of being the very last surface streetcar line to operate in downtown Newark.

The other surface car lines in Newark had been converted to rubber during 1937.

The old streetcar rails can also be glimpsed here; PS diesel buses used the Cedar St. Subway to access the lower level of the PS Terminal until sometime in the later 1960's.........

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_009.htm

(courtesy: Tom'sTrolleybuses)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

The same location, as seen in 1937, shows an outbound #43 car stopping to pick up at the waiting shelter seen in the previous photo.

It would not be long before the last streetcars of the #43 would run between Newark and Journal Square, with "modern" dual-powered trolley coaches taking thier place......

http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/CedarSt.portal1937.jpg