BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Many years ago, ASV's, diesel buses, and streetcars utilized the long-abandoned Cedar St. Subway in Newark, to access the lower level of the long since demolished PS Terminal.

PSNJ buses used this tunnel until the late 1960's......

http://columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/cedarst.html

[Mr. Linsky]

NYO,

Here's one for you to contemplate;

With my limited knowledge of New Jersey transit, all I can tell you is that the coach is a Yellow circa 1925 (possibly a Z-C-201 chassis) operating for Public Service Coordinated Transport with a fleet number ending in a '5' and is signed as a 'special' on route # 24 to West Orange.

One further hint might be the 'Bayonne Ferry' sign seen as reversed in the rear window.

Enjoy,

Photo courtesy of 'Vintage-Vault75' and is available at eBay as item # 171574711750.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Mr. "L":

Firstly, greatly appreciate you sharing this nostalgic (if wintry!) old PS view!

Cannot see the bus # (except for the "5"); this MIGHT have been the demo (#2015) whose pic link I posted earlier in this thread (there, however, the bus was signed for a HUDSON Division route)

You can just make out part of a PSNJ work car in the left background; this photo looks to be taken at one of PS's Newark-area barns/garages.

Incidently, the #49 UNION line was the first car line operating out of Newark to be converted to ASV operation (September, 1935)

The #24 was indeed an ESSEX Division route; by 1930 , PS buses (as well the buses of private companies) were growing more and more numerous in the Newark area; in 1937, a number of surface car lines in Newark (lines that did not connect to the Newark City Subway) were converted, and ASV's were now running on the former car lines.

You noted the "BAYONNE FERRY" sign in the rear window of the coach; I have seen many photos from that era of PS buses and streetcars displaying similiar rear signs, and no surprise there, as PS also operated several ferry routes in the New York Harbor area.

The busiest was the 125th St. line, which crossed over from Edgewater, NJ.

The "BAYONNE FERRY" was the Bergen Point Ferry, which crossed over to Port Richmond, Staten Island; still another operated to Carteret.

In 1943; PS sold off its ferry lines; the 125th St. line (shut down in December of 1950) was sold to ELECTRIC FERRIES, whose distinctive diesels later operated on the 69th St. line out of St. George until 1964.

The Bergen Point ferry (later operated by SUNRISE FERRIES) ran until about 1962.

Strangely enough, while ASV's operated on both the HUDSON and ESSEX Divisions, they never operated on the BERGEN Division, even though they did run in Paterson, which, until 1938, was served by streetcars; the "HUDSON RIVER" line, a BERGEN Division car line, ran between the 125th St. ferry terminal at Edgewater and Paterson.

Yes, indeed....PS was QUITE a diverse company....back in the day......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Rare 1930's interior view of these huge PS "carbarns" at Union City (my hometown!); note the "BAYONNE FERRY" sign in the rear window of the bus to the left of the streetcar.

If you look very closely on the right, you can just make out what MIGHT have been one of the "modern" ASV's.

(streetcar is signed for the "PAVONIA" line, which terminated at the old ERIE ferry terminal in Jersey City, at the foot of Pavonia Avenue; this line was converted to rubber about 1938)

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct135.htm

(courtesy: newdavesrailpix)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

One of the distinctive "Z" type ASV's is seen here rolling through the wilds of the famed "Jersey Meadows" on the #43 line.

Until 1938, the #43 was a streetcar line (Jersey City-Newark),and had the distinction of being the last surface car line to operate in downtown Newark.......

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_002.htm

(courtesy: Tom'sTrolleybuses.net)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Another "Z" holding down a #15 PASSAIC run; this line operated out of Hoboken, from under the shadows of the PS elevated trolley trestle, used until August of 1949, when all remaining HUDSON Division car lines were converted to bus........

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_033_newark_bv.htm

(courtesy: Tom'sTrolleybuses.net)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

The grandson, perhaps, of the hulking old YELLOW "Z" ASV's, was D900, the only GM Old Look trolleybus ever built.

This unique coach, a 1950 TDH-4509, looked very much like any other 4509 back in the day, except that it sprouted trolley poles.

Even though PS had pulled the plug on ASV operations only a few years earlier, it was planning to retire the old PS streetcars then running on the City Subway (and on the connecting surface lines, #21 and #29), pave over the subway ROW, and operate new ASV's along the line.

This plan would have also allowed for the continued use of the connecting subway-surface lines (the #23 CENTRAL had already been converted to bus, in December of 1947), with the buses utilizing overhead while in the subway proper, and then, operating as a straight diesel, once they had left the subway.

With all former ASV wire taken down, new wire was erected at the Bell St. (Montclair) carbarn yard (streetcars of the #21 and #29 were still based there); though the tests conducted were succesful, this ambitious postwar ASV project went nowhere, mainly because PSNJ had wanted the City of Newark to pay for the paving over of the City Subway, and the City quickly vetoed that idea.

PS eventually purchased 30 ex-TCRT PCC's for use in the City Subway; these sleek, historic cars ran for decades, until being retired in 2001.

Ironically, D900 never carried a revenue passenger under wire.

Soon, this unique dual-powered bus had its electrical gear removed, and operated for the rest of its life as a conventional diesel.

This photo shows it under wire at Bell St., Monclair.......

http://www.lightrailnow.org/images/nwk-hist-tb-asv.jpg

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

A rear view of D900 at Bell St., Montclair, taken in 1950; this interesting view gives us a good idea of what a production model GM Old Look trolleybus would look like!

On the left, is veteran streetcar #2607; this car was one of a large number of unique PS "Compromise roof" cars, which dated to WW1.

At one time, cars of this type could be found on a number of PS car lines; when this photo was taken, streetcars would continue to operate on the #29 subway-surface for two more years, before being replaced by buses in March of 1952.

One cannot help but wonder what NJT bus operations would be like today, had the revived ASV concept taken hold......and advanced through the years.....

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_gm_d900_bellstloop_01_1950_pcbv.htm

(courtesy; Tom'sTrolleybuses.net)

[N4 Jamaica]

Returning to your post about a Yellow Z on 15 PASSAIC, please allow a question and some observations.
The gasoline engine is obviously mounted up front, probably driving the rear axle with a turning shaft (drive shaft?). When electric motors were added to these buses, was there just one motor and where was it placed and connected to the drive wheels? Was the electric motor controlled by the same foot pedal as the gas throttle, or was there a separate hand controller?
---
I like those companies which choose to have a route number and brief route name, such as 15 PASSAIC. However, I admit that they can be confusing: the 15 ASV, if it followed the old 15 streetcar, went from Hoboken to Jersey City, Secaucus, Moonachie, East Rutherford, Carlton Hill, Passaic, Clifton, and Paterson. In Clifton, the large route name PASSAIC could be deceptive, as the vehicle was heading away from that city. On the return trip, for the ten miles from Carlton Hill to Hoboken, the route name PASSAIC could again be misleading.
Edward Hamm's book, The Public Service Trolley Lines in New Jersey, has a route map on page 208 and several interesting pages of the line's history.
---
When I went to NJ Transit's website and requested directions from Hoboken to Passaic, it sent me into PABT to make a transfer!

Joe

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Coming soon to a theatre near you:

"The Exciting Adventures of All Service Vehicle Drivers"!

Heartstopping excitement!

Thrills!

Chills!

Bravado!

A busload of laffs!

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Fellows:

"Everything you wanted to know about All-Service Vehicles, but were afraid to ask!" (sort of!)

Recently, a fellow transit buff friend of mine sent me a rare PS booklet from the 60's, "A RECOLLECTION OF TIME, PICTURES, PEOPLE & PLACES IN COMMEMORATION OF THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE CHARTER" (ATU, Division 823, Elizabeth)

I had never knew this little booklet existed, and now, I would not part with it at any price; the book is not only filled with the recollections of PS motormen and bus drivers long since passed on to that big carbarn in the sky, but also, many rare PS trolley, bus, and ASV photos.

One photo shows a YELLOW "Z" ASV, signed for the "#6 MAIN"; the caption reads "Ah! Yes.....The China Clipper"

One detailed (as well as humorous!) recollection tells the story of a PS driver, operating an ASV on the #11 on Frelinghausen Avenue (Newark), when he encountered fire trucks blocking the street.

"No problem......Ed would only have to pull down the poles and go around the block. He pushed the button to retrieve the poles, and then pressed the starter button for the motor. No response. Ed pressed again and again....still no response. Puzzled, he walked around to the rear and opened the hatches to the engine compartment. What was the matter? The mechanical department had been working on the motor, had then removed it, but neglected to inform the dispatcher. Since the bus had been standing under wires when it was assigned to Ed, he had simply raised the poles and took off...."

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

From the same vintage PS booklet:

"........on Broad St. at the Arch (Elizabeth), southbound there was an overhead switch for the all-service buses. One set of wires went straight ahead for the #49 UNION line (converted to ASV in 1935) and the other set of wires turned the corner for the #11......"

"......you would load up at West Grand St. , and, if you were a #49, you had to get a running start and 'coast' through the switch....uphill, yet! If the traffic stopped, and you had to use power again, the poles would switch to the left....with the bus going straight ahead......"

"........of course, this would have to happen in the middle of the rush hour......then of course, the retrievers would not work.....the gas motor would not start, and you would have to get out and stand in the middle of all that traffic and stand out there, at the risk of life and limb, to try to replace the poles on the correct wires...."


Sure must have been a hoot and a half to be a PS man, back in the day!

Far too many colorful (and historical) stories such as these were taken to the grave by the old timers who sadly have left us long ago.....

"NYO"

A brief note from the same booklet:

".......many stories can be told of the All-Service Sehicles.....its advantages, such as quiet operation and great pickup speed.....great economy.....but its disadvantage was its inability to be flexible enough......"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Another installment from "The Exciting Adventures Of An ASV Driver".......

".......I recall when operating an all service vehicle around Westfield Plaza one day, an auto cut me off and I lost both wires. At this, both retriever ropes snapped at the same time, and left both poles standing straight up like matchsticks....."

"........I climbed to the roof of the bus, then, disdaining to dirty my uniform again on the way down, I wrapped the retriever rope around my wrist, and stepped off the back of the bus, coming down with the spring of the trolley pole which restrained my fall to a safe landing......."

".........a large group of commuters began to gather around my stalled bus. I climbed to the roof again, very much aware of my audience, and with great bravado, repeated the performance with the other pole, with much applause from the interested onlookers....."

Yes, indeed.....it took a BRAVE and INGENIOUS fellow to handle an ornery ASV, back in the good ol' days of PSNJ.......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Also gleaned from the aforementioned PS booklet:

"......the trolley-buses that Public Service operated were stranger conveyances, to say the least! The rails in the street were gone, but, instead, new 'rails' (wires) hung in the air above the street. These vehicles, though flexible, could not swing more than 12 feet on either side of the wires. The whole purpose of the trolley-bus was to achieve very low operational costs...."

".......the trolley-buses that Public Service operated were very different from those used in other cities., in that these had a gasoline engine in the rear, which generated the same electric power as was recieved from the overhead wires. This enabled the bus to operate under its own power, away from the wires....."

"NYO"