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When is a "Fishbowl" a "New Look"?
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYO, you have already illustrated the the point I was going to try to make in your citing "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".....Just who copied who?
The Twins did have that basic windshield style, prior to GM expanding vastly on the idea....
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
NYO, you have already illustrated the the point I was going to try to make in your citing "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".....Just who copied who?
The Twins did have that basic windshield style, prior to GM expanding vastly on the idea....


traildriver:

The earliest TWINS to utilize the "trademark" windshield were those built just after WW2. The new postwar models (34-S, 38-S, 41-S, 41-D, and 44-D) were announced in 1944.

Recall, the first GM Fishbowl/New Looks went into service in 1959 (DC TRANSIT recieved the first GM's that year) while the first Flex New Looks were not produced until 1960.

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another postwar TWIN COACH/FLXIBLE New Look windshield comparison.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1570

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3956

(courtesy bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"COMPARISON FACE-OFF" (GMC/FLXIBLE, Washington Plaza, 1972)

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1621

(courtesy bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TRIBORO garage, 1981........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2252

(courtesy bus.nycsubway.org)
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a practical aspect to Flxible's angular windshield design - it used flat glass panels instead of the more expensive curved glass required for GM's windshield.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RailBus63 wrote:
There was a practical aspect to Flxible's angular windshield design - it used flat glass panels instead of the more expensive curved glass required for GM's windshield.


That is right; and it does make a good deal of sense.

Interestingly, in Dayton, Ohio, the first order of Fishbowls were specially modified to use opaque fiberglass in the lower sections of the windshield, for "modesty" purposes......obviously, the new Fishbowl design was too startling for Dayton riders accustomed to small-windowed buses!

Proper "modesty" had to be restored to the city!

(from "THE BUS WORLD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF BUSES", by Ed Stauss)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good head-on windshield view (Postwar FAGEOL/TWIN COACH):

http://amhistory.si.edu/onthemove/collection/object_200.html
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this discussion, a brief mention must be made of CTA's #8499; this bus was unique in the CTA fleet, as it was the only one that utilized a "New Look"-style front grafted onto a "stock" postwar TWIN body.

This was a handsome bus that easily "stood out from the pack".......more to follow......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All:

Just did some quick research, and came across this photo of ex-CTA #8499, dating from 2002.

Good to see that this unique coach was spared the scrapyard!

http://www.motorbussociety.org/conventn/02fall/CTA%208499.jpg
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS wrote;

Interestingly, in Dayton, Ohio, the first order of Fishbowls were specially modified to use opaque fiberglass in the lower sections of the windshield, for "modesty" purposes......obviously, the new Fishbowl design was too startling for Dayton riders accustomed to small-windowed buses!

NYO,

No, I think the modesty panels may have been placed to protect lady drivers from prying eyes outside the bus although most female operators that I've seen usually wear slacks and not skirts and certainly not mini skirts if you get my drift!

That may be why Flexible's windshields sat slightly higher than GM's.

Whatever!

Best regards,

Mr. 'L'
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS wrote;

Interestingly, in Dayton, Ohio, the first order of Fishbowls were specially modified to use opaque fiberglass in the lower sections of the windshield, for "modesty" purposes......obviously, the new Fishbowl design was too startling for Dayton riders accustomed to small-windowed buses!

NYO,

No, I think the modesty panels may have been placed to protect lady drivers from prying eyes outside the bus although most female operators that I've seen usually wear slacks and not skirts and certainly not mini skirts if you get my drift!

That may be why Flexible's windshields sat slightly higher than GM's.

Whatever!

Best regards,

Mr. 'L'


Mr. "L":

Hey, I'm only (literally!) going by the book, here! Laughing

Remember, too, in the early Fishbowl era, the female drivers were very much in the minority; bus driving was still "a man's job" in the early/mid 60's!

Too, that was still the era when most drivers still wore snappy uniforms and caps, looking very much like Air Force commanders!

In fact, this "modesty" feature is something I've only read about in the aforementioned book !

Of course, in those days, most females still wore dresses and skirts (and 15 cents could still pay for your fare in "Noo Yawk"!)

Man......now I feel so dang OLD.................... Rolling Eyes

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fellows:

We must make at least a brief mention of "New LooK" MACKS:

In 1959, MACK introduced its "New Look" transit bus, which featured a giant wraparound windshield (at that time, "wraparound" windshields were common on many makes of autos) with a full 100% increase in glass over their previous designs of transit coaches.

The new front end also included a striking, gold-colored fiberglass grill.

The spiffed-up bus was offered in C-47 and C-49 models, and the first were sold to the Niagara Frontier Transit System of Buffalo.

Sadly, these sleek, updated MACKS were not all that popular, with only a handful being produced.

On a personal note, I never got to ride one of these unique coaches, but I do have several photos I took back in 1975 of a few that than ran for the BLUE & WHITE, at their old Tonnelle Avenue (North Bergen) yard.......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a couple of old photos showing "New Look" MACKS in service.....

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?145

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2951

(courtesy bus.nycsubway.org)
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Fellows:

We must make at least a brief mention of "New LooK" MACKS:

In 1959, MACK introduced its "New Look" transit bus, which featured a giant wraparound windshield (at that time, "wraparound" windshields were common on many makes of autos) with a full 100% increase in glass over their previous designs of transit coaches.

The new front end also included a striking, gold-colored fiberglass grill.

The spiffed-up bus was offered in C-47 and C-49 models, and the first were sold to the Niagara Frontier Transit System of Buffalo.

Sadly, these sleek, updated MACKS were not all that popular, with only a handful being produced.

On a personal note, I never got to ride one of these unique coaches, but I do have several photos I took back in 1975 of a few that than ran for the BLUE & WHITE, at their old Tonnelle Avenue (North Bergen) yard.......

"NYO"


NYO,

Just one slight clarification;

Niagara Frontier Transit (NFT) was the designer of Mack's 'New Look' front end and 'licensed' Mack to use it.

Unfortunately for Mack it was too little too late as they ended bus manufacture only a year later.

BTW; notice how prominently Mack's New Look pantographic windshield wipers stood out like giant tentacles.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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