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upperharlemline4ever
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 60
Location: New York State
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 Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:01 am Post subject: Former LI Bus Buses |
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| At the time f the creation of NICE, there was an issue of ownership of certain of the buses. How did this work out? Did some of them in fact belong to the MTA and were they returned to them or were they all titled to Nassau County? |
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Former LI Bus Buses |
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| upperharlemline4ever wrote: | | At the time f the creation of NICE, there was an issue of ownership of certain of the buses. How did this work out? Did some of them in fact belong to the MTA and were they returned to them or were they all titled to Nassau County? |
upperharlemline4ever,
Long time no see - glad you're still around.
As far as I know, the equipment of NICE and all before it including Long Island Bus and MSBA was the property of The County of Nassau which contracted with the aforementioned entities to run them.
The issue of ownership of some of the buses at the time of NICE takeover may have had to do with coaches that were either borrowed or leased from New York City.
That's my take but I certainly stand corrected.
Many regards,
Mr. 'L' |
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NorthShore
Age: 76
Joined: 18 Mar 2012
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| That's an interesting question. Originally, Nassau County was supposed to purchase and own the MTA-operated MSBA/LI Bus system. In the later years, Nassau balked anout paying MTA operating costs and also for the purchase of buses. The last few orders of Orion VII's were bought bt MTA for LI Bus operations, but not paid by Nassau. How NICE got to keep the buses is a mystery. |
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RailBus63
Moderator
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 1063
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| NorthShore wrote: | | That's an interesting question. Originally, Nassau County was supposed to purchase and own the MTA-operated MSBA/LI Bus system. In the later years, Nassau balked anout paying MTA operating costs and also for the purchase of buses. The last few orders of Orion VII's were bought bt MTA for LI Bus operations, but not paid by Nassau. How NICE got to keep the buses is a mystery. |
I'm pretty sure those Orion VII's were purchased using funds provided to Nassau County, but they left the ordering and specifications to the MTA (which explains the standard blue stripe paint job and other similarities to the NYCTA fleet). |
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NorthShore
Age: 76
Joined: 18 Mar 2012
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I am almost positive from news articles at the time that although MTA ordered the buses (to NYCT specs) in case Nassau would not pay for them they could be transferred by MTA to NYCT. Nassau County never fulfilled its obligation to pay for the buses. But the buses were never transpferred and remain with NICE. |
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GBL Rebel
Moderator
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 608
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Anything MTA owned they took with them. The buses were not one of the things that was theirs. |
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upperharlemline4ever
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 60
Location: New York State
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks guys. From your responses, it looks lik no one knows for sure. The only thing is that I think Nassau County kept the buses, whether legally or illegally. Remember reading that the buses were titiled to the MTA and not the county. Did the MTA transfer title to Nassau, just to get this mess behind them? This was never addressed. You know when we'll find out is when there is a serious accident (pray it doesn't happen) and someone sues and we find out that the MTA is still the title holder. Nassau county screwed everyone on this one. That blue band issue brings to mind that the MTA said that they owned the buses and when Nassau was willing to pay their share for them, the MTA would consider adding the orange stripe to the band. |
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R62CNG
Banned
Joined: 14 Feb 2014
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Just my two cents, I think the REAL reason the MTA had loaned Nassau the Orion VII NG CNGs was because the MTA had scrapped all of the Cummins L10G Orion V CNGs. I guess this was a way to get out of a possible law suit by the county had the MTA taken #1700-1839. Personally, since Nassau doesn't really give a damn about transit service within it's borders, I always believed that ALL of NICE's/Long Island bus's fleet were MTA owned, including the Orion V CNGs. The Orion V CNGs even had some standard NYCT specs such as the Alcoa hubcaps (many newer NYCT buses had this feature until the early 2000s). |
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RailBus63
Moderator
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 1063
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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See page 25 of the attached document - projects 082559 and 082560 outline the plan to purchase 40-foot CNG buses for LI Bus in 2008 and 2009 using state, local and federal funding (FTA and CMAQ).
NYMTC - Long Island Program Highlights and Project Listings
The buses belong to the county. |
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upperharlemline4ever
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 60
Location: New York State
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Can't find the page 25 that you refer to. |
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GBL Rebel
Moderator
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 608
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| R62CNG wrote: | | Just my two cents, I think the REAL reason the MTA had loaned Nassau the Orion VII NG CNGs was because the MTA had scrapped all of the Cummins L10G Orion V CNGs. I guess this was a way to get out of a possible law suit by the county had the MTA taken #1700-1839. Personally, since Nassau doesn't really give a damn about transit service within it's borders, I always believed that ALL of NICE's/Long Island bus's fleet were MTA owned, including the Orion V CNGs. The Orion V CNGs even had some standard NYCT specs such as the Alcoa hubcaps (many newer NYCT buses had this feature until the early 2000s). |
Okay but why did MTA have to return the Orion V's from Eastchester scrap when NICE happened? MTA did not own the buses, and that is the best reason to return junk. The blue stripe was only after regional bus took affect. MTA was told after bus 193 was painted single blue stripe that the Orion V's are to remain with the orange as well.
The Orion VII HYBRIDS at MTA bus are titled to MTA, bought with Federal funds for NYCDOT. Don't let the name on a title fool you, when federal money is involved people tend not to play around. |
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GBL Rebel
Moderator
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 608
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| upperharlemline4ever wrote: | | Can't find the page 25 that you refer to. |
25 pages into the packet. Top right corner says page 9 of 32 is where it starts. It ends on 16 of 32. |
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R62CNG
Banned
Joined: 14 Feb 2014
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| So is that also the reason why that the Orion VII OG hybrids and NG hybrids can't transfer from MTA bus company, to NYCT or LI bus? |
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NorthShore
Age: 76
Joined: 18 Mar 2012
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Page 6 of the report states "There is a current funding short fall for the 2007-2010 bus replacement cycle that the County and State are trying to close."
Nassau County never fulfilled their obligation. That is why MTA refused to keep subsidizing LI Bus without proper compensation from Nassau. Finally MTA refused to continue this arrangement so Nassau withdrew from MTA and started their cut-rate system. We will never know how title of the Orion VII's were transferred from MTA to Nassau County. |
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RailBus63
Moderator
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 1063
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| NorthShore wrote: | Page 6 of the report states "There is a current funding short fall for the 2007-2010 bus replacement cycle that the County and State are trying to close."
Nassau County never fulfilled their obligation. That is why MTA refused to keep subsidizing LI Bus without proper compensation from Nassau. Finally MTA refused to continue this arrangement so Nassau withdrew from MTA and started their cut-rate system. We will never know how title of the Orion VII's were transferred from MTA to Nassau County. |
Nassau's obligation was only for a small percentage of the overall purchase, though. The majority was covered by the Feds with a portion also paid by the state (same as they do for various transit agencies upstate). Maybe there was a handshake agreement between the MTA and the county where the authority kicked in the local share, but I'm assuming that all 100 of the 1700-series buses were titled to LI Bus/Nassau County. Same for the later 1800-series buses. The MTA probably had no idea back then that the relationship would sour so badly that the county would pull out of the relationship and take the buses with them. |
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