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"Twins" weren't common in Knickerbocker's brood
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"SHADOWS".........

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?117802

(courtesy bus.nycsubway.org)
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
No date or location for this New York photo (note the elderly TWIN in the background)........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3397

(courtesy bus.nycsubway.org)



NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629.

The elderly Twin in the background below is actually an elderly ACF job and one of 105 (30 1936 H-13-S's numbered 70 to 729 and 75 1938 H-17-S's numbered 800 to 874) operated for the Brooklyn Bus Corporation that also met with premature deaths in 1948.

The front row are 1939 37 passenger Mack Model 'Improved' CT-3G's and were part of a seventy five bus delivery numbered 900 to 974 to the Brooklyn company and came in a special World's Fair livery of all cream with a wide red band at the belt line - these were the last buses ever to be ordered by the BMT bus division.

The early retirement of these Macks was a pity - Green Bus Lines (NY), the nations record holder on the 'CT' model with 100 in operation, pushed them with ease for nearly twenty years before turning them over to commonly owned Triboro Coach and Jamaica Buses where they enjoyed another few years of active service.

BTW; the 'improvement' on Brooklyn's Macks was the angled windshield and, as long as we're talking about their windshields, note that # 912 has the old double blade cross sweep type wipers while # 969 next to it features the more modern arc sweeps.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. "L":

Appreciate the correction.....as well as your (as always) interesting historical facts!

I thought that bus was a TWIN....but, after reading your reply, I can tell right off the bat that this was an ACF.

Such a wide variety of buses to watch, photograph, and ride.......back in the day......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....t'was a sunny day back in '49........

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?118031

(courtesy nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"......like two ships passing in the night....." (Jamacia & Crescent, 1947)

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?118057

(courtesy nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TWIN D 1244 sharing the photographer's attention with a steel-wheeled relic (Hamilton Ave., 1946)........

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?118114

(courtesy nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another timeless bygone, long-ago Brooklyn transit scene from the 1940's (Jamacia Avenue).......

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?140939

(courtesy nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this dismal scrap yard scene, the GM alongside the TWIN looks to have have been in some sort of serious altercation before it hit the scrap yard (hopefully, no serious injuries or fatalities)......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3990

(courtesy bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this impressive lineup of long-gone classics at the W. 5th St. Depot, the few TWINS are clearly overshadowed by the GMC's........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4001

(courtesy bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Roth wrote:
Any photo's out there of Atlantic City NJ TWINS? They were the only TWINS I ever saw or rode on as a kid.

John (from the old BTC board)


Hey, John:

Just came across these magnificent AC shots a few minutes ago......enjoy! Very Happy

"NYO"

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4291

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4292

(courtesy bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"OH, CANADA!" Very Happy Wink

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4288

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4286

(courtesy bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another old Edmonton view.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?4289

(courtesy bus.nycsubway.org)
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Q65A



Age: 66
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1764
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the BOT/TA/MTA bus roster complied by A.J. Kristopans comes this info about Twins in The Big Apple:

Twin Coaches Acquired by BOT (Starting 6/1/40)

110-119 10 Twin 40 800-809 1929 (40)
ex-Brooklyn Bus Corp 110-119
139 1 Twin 40 887 1930 (40)
ex-Brooklyn Bus Corp 139
141-144 4 Twin 40 865-868 1930 (40)
ex-Brooklyn Bus Corp 141-144
149-152 4 Twin 20 22022-22025 1930 (40)
ex-Brooklyn Bus Corp 149-152
300-373 74 Twin 30 ? 1931 (40)
ex-Brooklyn Bus Corp 300-373
374-388 15 Twin 30-A ? 1934 (40)
ex-Brooklyn Bus Corp 374-388
1100-1289 190 Twin 41-GE ? 1941
1300-1359 60 Twin 41-GDE ? 1941
1-119 119 Twin 40-RL 39146-39264 1939 (47)
Ex-North Shore Bus Co 1-119
120 1 Twin 40-RL 39106 1939 (47)
Ex-North Shore Bus Co 120
121-130 10 Twin 41-G 39325-39334 1939 (47)
Ex-North Shore Bus Co 121-130
131-145 15 Twin 41-G 39715-39729 1941 (47)
Ex-North Shore Bus Co 131-145
150-159 10 Twin 41-S 4-13 1946 (47)
Ex-North Shore Bus Co 150-159
672-676 5 Twin 37-R 51144-51148 1935 (47)
Ex-North Shore Bus Co 672-676
678-686 9 Twiî 37-Ò 51150-51158 193µ (47)
Ex-North Shore Bus Co 678-686
700-714 15 Twin 40-R 53021-53035 1935 (47)
Ex-North Shore Bus Co 700-714
715-724 10 Twin 40-R 53050-53059 1936 (47)
Ex-North Shore Bus Co 715-724
160-199 40 Twin 41-S 339-378 1947
1400-1439 40 Twin 41-S 164-203 1947
1440-1499 60 Twin 41-S 380-439 1947
1500-1524 25 Twin 41-S 826-850 1947
1525-1575 51 Twin 44-S 56-106 1947-48
1700-1829 130 Twin 44-S 218-347 1948

NYCTA Twin Coaches (Acquired from BOT 6/15/53)

150-199 50 Twin 41-S 1946-47 (53)
Ex-BOT 150-199
1400-1524 125 Twin 41-S 1947 (53)
Ex-BOT 1400-1524
1525-1575 51 Twin 44-S 1947-48 (53)
Ex-BOT 1525-1575
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q65A:

Was truly surprised (and pleased!) to see this old thread of mine revived.......thanks for taking the time to prepare and post that TWIN roster! Wink

As I had written long ago here, TWINS in my general area were virtually non-existent, except for the handful of prewar 23-R/30-R types I remember when I was quite young, in the Jersey City area.

It's interesting how some cities ordered good-sized fleets (like Chicago) of TWINS, while other properties rostered a handful or not at all.

For quite obvious reasons, I've long considered the postwar TWINS a QUITE exotic vehicle....... Rolling Eyes

"NYO"
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Q65A



Age: 66
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1764
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noted bus author Bill Luke published Fageol & Twin Coach Buses: 1922-1956 Photo Archive[i] in 2002. Frank and William Fageol (Oakland CA) were true automotive pioneers. Their Safety Coach was launched in 1922 and is regarded as a significant early bus design. Ironically ACF actually had bought Fageol Motors Co. of Ohio, then the Fageol brothers bought the firm back from ACF. In 1927, the Twin Coach Model 100 was introduced. It was so named because it used 2 Waukesha gasoline engines. Later renamed Model 40, it was very popular (>1000 units sold up to 1934).
Twin was a very innovative builder, developing rear engine transit buses, early low floor buses, the first diesel engine transit bus produced by an OEM, diesel-electric buses, buses with "gravity suspensions" and a 4-axle artic. After World War II they pioneered transit buses with 6-piece windshields and underfloor engines, and also produced trackless coaches for SF Muni and DSR (Detroit).
Flxible (also Ohio based) acquired Twin Coach in 1952 and started marketing their own line of transit buses (with 6-piece windshields pioneered by Twin). Early Flxible transits actually were marketed as "Flxible Twin Coach" until 1962.
Why did the business of Twin Coach falter in the post-World War II era?
According to Bill Luke, Twin was still marketing gas engine buses at a time when diesel buses were fast becoming the norm.
For those customers who demanded diesel power, Twin had to purchase engines from third party manufacturers (primarily Hercules), putting them at a distinct disadvantage with GM and Mack, who manufactured their own proprietary engines and powertrain components in-house.
Jim Greller also commented that early post-World War II transit buses in NY led hard lives, operating in heavy traffic primarily on rough cobblestone streets still bearing trolley tracks on many routes, especially in Brooklyn. GM and Mack buses tended to succeed early in this game, perhaps because of their more robust construction (especially Macks, who called their body/frame assembly [i]Fortress Frame
) and more advanced engines (especially GM's very capable 6-71, a legendary 2-stroke that did not yield its "throne" until the 6V-71N arrived in 1959.)
It sometimes is good to be an innovator and to offer first-to-market technologies, but in the waning years of street railways and the early years of diesel transits, it was more important to become established as a manufacturer of virtually bulletproof designs that required little specialized maintenance.
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