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'Weekend Off For Mr. 'L'!

 
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:26 am    Post subject: 'Weekend Off For Mr. 'L'! Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky (your resident humorist and Green Bus Lines aficionado) is taking the weekend off and giving this computer a well earned rest!

Actually, I'm headed with my wife to San Francisco to celebrate my mother in law's 104th. birthday! (should be quite a bash!).

Of course, anything of unusual interest (transportation wise) that I see in my travels I will report to you upon return.

In the meantime, enjoy the next couple of days sans my wise cracks!

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc. (Old Look Division), Jamaica & Arverne, New York
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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 501
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a good trip to San Francisco, Mr. Linsky. There certainly are a lot of different types of transit vehicles up there. My favorites would be their restored PCC fleet. Of course, if there were some restored Old Looks, Macks, Whites, or even a Twin or M-H trolley bus running, that would be even more interesting. Happy 104 to your MIL and we shall be looking forward to your return and report!
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:44 pm    Post subject: 'A Cornucopia!' Reply with quote

Cyberider,

To say that there are a lot of different types of transit vehicles in San Francisco is putting it mildly! It's a 'cornucopia'!

I don't know where to begin!

Since we have a mutual interest in PCC cars, I saw many and each in the livery of the city that it either came from or it represents.

I have to tell you that after seeing the NYCBOT # 1053 on the 'F' Castro line at Taylor on Beach Street in the Marina District I thought I was back at Mc Donald Avenue and Church in Brooklyn (circa 1950).

The colors are exactly what they were and the BOT logo stands out beautifully!

The other PCC I saw on that line was an original San Francisco Muni also in excellent condition.

There were a number of others running along the 'Embarcadero' (the street that encircles the wharf district) but I couldn't catch the names on them.

Most interesting were the really old genuine trolley cars also running the 'F' Castro route - two were numbered 1856 and 1841 and they appeared to be of St. Louis Car Company origin (I could be wrong, and I do stand corrected).

The Golden Gate Transportation Authority runs loads of D-4500's and RTS's.

Of course there are the 'Muni's' in single and articulated trackless models, as well as regular CNG's

There's a light rail service on that same Embarcadero, and Bay Area Rapid Transit subway lines - not to mention the famous cable cars!

To make a long story short, I don't think that there's a street in San Francisco that isn't served by some method a rapid transit - they should be extremely proud of the job they do!

Here's one interesting fact; on every trackless trolley there are signs saying that they run absolutely emissions free! - and they do because the power they derive from their catenaries is from hydro-electric sources!

BTW; my mother in laws birthday party was outstanding - but I'm glad to be back!

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Your west coast roving reporter!
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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 501
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky,

Glad you had a good visit and made it back safely to BTIII!

That was fortuitous, indeed, that you saw the PCC in Brooklyn livery.

Interesting fact about the trackless trolleys being truly pollution-free. The transit industry has a bad habit of taking the "green thing" beyond what it really is in many cases.

I belong to a SF transit group and it's always interesting to see the photos of the equipment up there. Their PCC fleet is really something. It was at low ebb when my late wife and I visited in 1990. Boeings everywhere and just a few rusty, battered PCC's in the yard. I guess the Boeings are gone already, aren't they? A good thing in the air but not on rails! Laughing

Thanks for the interesting report, Mr. Linsky!

Dave
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:46 am    Post subject: 'Boeing?' Reply with quote

Cyberider,

I know this is a stupid question, but what are or were the Boeings (other than the airplanes we fly?).

I've heard the name mentioned in connection with rapid transit but I wouldn't know one if I fell over it!

There are some articulated trackless jobs in San Francisco that are painted all gray and are very boxy in shape - I tried to see who made them but they have no manufacturer's I.D.'s - could these be Boeings?

I know what my fascination is with the PCC's; they are really buses mounted on rail trucks, and look very much like postwar Macks.

I'm wondering how long they can run? (I hope it's forever!).

Just a little teaser below!

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica and Arverne, New York

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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 501
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky,

The Boeings were the LRV's they had before they got the current ones. They replaced the PCC's sometime around 1980. I think they're all gone now. They were your typical ugly modern design, not beautiful like the PCC's! I have some photos of them from our trip if I can find them. I haven't kept up on who manufactured their current LRV's and trolley buses. I remember the Flyer trolley buses when we were there and I think most of them have been retired.

I always liked the PCC's too and it looks like they can run forever if they're run through the Brookville rebuilding plant. The color didn't turn out too well in the photo but that looks like the one in Pacific Electric livery even though PE never had a PCC of that style. Their's were all double-ended models acquired in 1940. Must be quite a sight to see all the different liveries they have there.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: 'Boeing Comments' Reply with quote

Dave,

I did manage to find this little piece on the Boeings - enjoy

Mr. Linsky

My comment about the Boeing cars being notorious evoked this e-mail response from a long-time MUNI rider:

You mention in your article "A new fleet of high-tech Italian-built light rail cars is just now arriving to displace the NOTORIOUS Boeing cars.".. Who told you the BOEINGs are notorious? They're worn out, which is why they need a lot of maintenance. Notorious, no way. We like them, as do the drivers. The Italian BREDAs are notorious. We don't like them and don't want them because-
a) noise- they emit a high pitched, piercing sond which has cost a lot of money to try to get rid of (this disturbs everyone who lives near a streetcar line). It's not completely gone yet.
b) heavy- they cause the earth to shake. This is very upsetting, living in an earthquake area. Houses near the lines quiver when they pass.
c) slower
d) they're larger- problems with passing through tunnels at speed
e) aesthetically, they're ugly, like gigantic boxes
f) had problems with their electronics
g) a lot of irritating, whining warning noises inside, ie when raising/lowering steps, other situations (they hurt my ears as well as my brothers, others have also complained). The Boeings use bells= much better, but this can't be changed, they say.
h) many would rather buy American LRVs than give the jobs to foreigners.

So you see, we San Franciscans are not happy about the Bredas. Of course, it depends on who you talk to. City Hall has really tried hard to get us to embrace the BREDAs. Expect to see a preservation drive for the Boeing cars to crop up as they're phased out. I've ridden in both types, but I prefer the Boeings. Those I've talked to can't understand why City Hall insists on the Bredas. Some have even suggested kickbacks as the reason. Well, this has been a bit long, but I think you understand why I reacted on your statement concerning the Boeing cars.

Sincerely yours,

Michael Fahlman
Michael.Fahlman@MPHY.LU.SE
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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 501
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting, Mr. Linsky. The Breda's sound like they have the same attributes as our modern buses. Too bad they dumped most of their PCC's in the '70's instead of rebuilding them like they're doing with the PCC's they're getting from other cities.

It seems to me that the Shaker Rapid in Cleveland used Breda equipment. My wife and I made a number of trips back and forth on them in 1992 and they seemed okay though I'd have rather that they still had their PCC's too.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:40 pm    Post subject: 'PCC's' Reply with quote

Dave,

I am certain that there were preservationists in San Francisco in the seventies who would very much have liked to have saved and restored as many PCC cars as possible.

However, if finances for transit related projects were as tight in S.F. as they were in New York at that time, you can understand why nothing could have been accomplished.

What S.F. should have done was to 'mothball' a number of select pieces for future restoration - which would not have cost them very much to do.

It's almost like the tragic error made by New York City in the sixties when they allowed developers to tear down the 'Beaux-Arts' Pennsylvania Station (built to last eight hundred years) and replace it with a glorified waste paper basket that they call Madison Square Garden!

These are sad commentaries, but what are you going to do?

Mr. 'L'
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:50 pm    Post subject: 'PCC Cars Again!' Reply with quote

Dave,

You may have already seen this NYC Subway site devoted to PCC cars, but if not, you'll really enjoy it!

http://world.nycsubway.org/us/pcc/

Mr.'L'
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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 501
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky,

San Francisco has not been as good about preserving retired transit vehicles as New York has been. I've seen pictures of retired vehicles put out in an unprotected yard and totally vandalized. But, their new PCC's are nice, even if they weren't their own and hopefully they'll be around for a long time.

Thanks for the link to nycsubway.org. That was the first thing that brought me to that site when I got online in 2000. It wasn't until several years later that I started examining the NYC subway photos and got interested in that. I've been a bus and electric railway fan all my life but the NYC subway never attracted me until I saw some of the historical photos there and, of course, now I'm fascinated with the City and the subway system.

It's a real shame about the Pennsylvania Station and a lot of other things but if someone has something to gain by getting rid of something and putting in something new, it's too bad for us! At least we have books on the things we like to keep our memories alive. When we're gone, maybe no one will care about them!
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: 'Pennsylvania Station' Reply with quote

Dave.

It is too bad about Penn Station which was a terrific loss to the city (and to humanity!), but we do learn from our mistakes!

It was just this one act of destruction that created the 'Landmarks Preservation Commission' in New York City which is devoted to saving our historic buildings despite their owners!

The Empire State Building, the Chrysler Building, Grand Central Station and the James A. Farley Post Office building are just a few of the now 'untouchable' structures.

The Farley Building is very interesting and making a lot of news nowadays because it is of the same 'Beaux-Arts' design as was Penn Station and sits just across the street at Eighth Avenue with tracks running under it to the Long Island RR storage yards at the Hudson River.

The post office has all but vacated the structure which will now be converted to the new Pennsylvania Station (with the LPC people making certain that there will be no radical changes to the architecture). It will be a 'grand' replacement!

Fitting a new Madison Square Garden into the complex is a sticking point that is yet to be resolved, but they expect to work around it.

Mr. Linsky
"The Green Hornet"
Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica and Arverne, New York
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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 501
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a little reassuring, Mr. Linsky! Too bad we can't get that kind of status for the remaining PCC's and Old Look buses.
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