BusTalk

[NiftyNate]

Here is my 1966 TDH-3501 camper conversion. Coach #616.

This is not the prettiest picture, but it's the most recent.

* The missing trim pieces are inside, not lost.
* The right-side pneumatic wiper is jammed and unusable, thus removed.
* The sign window above, recently replaced, currently is not properly installed and leaks.


Engine
It has a v6 diesel Toro-Flow engine with all kinds of weird stuff tacked onto it. We're slowly figuring it out from the manuals, but the documentation is often vague and unhelpful even in GM's specifically issued materials.

From what we've heard, the Toro-Flow was known for blowing gaskets under heavy load, but thankfully this has some arrangement of transmission and rear end assembly that favors slow-and-steady city gearing, rather than the high-power stuff they'd stick in a tour bus.

If anyone knows more about these rarities, please share your knowledge here!

History
It was turned into a camper (not by me) around 1975. Lots of badly-done installation from a camper kit, and a whole lot of shag rug and faux wood paneling. Most of that has now been ripped out.
Not much I can do about the tin-and-bondo window replacements right now, but I have future plans to create false windows that restore the original look.
There's very little left of the original interior past the driver's seat console. It's hardly a clean slate inside with all the weird woodwork that's been built into it, but as a utility vehicle it should have a practical future.
We're not totally sure where it came from, but rumor has it that this once operated around Braintree (near Boston, MA) and later did runs to and from the beaches somewhere nearby. Records show no TDH-3501's ever running in MA, so it may have been a CT bus that was transported to MA later. EDIT: Turns out it's from Hull.

We picked it up on Cape Cod where it was in the hands of its third private owner, and the story he gave wasn't too clear. It's hard to know exactly where it came from, but we'd love to find out.

PS: The best feeling in the world was when we got it running again after it sat dead in our driveway for three years.


Plans
We're working on turning it into a mobile computer repair center for business offices and whatnot. I operate a computer shop in town and plan to use this to expand our services. The project has been four years in the making, but we're making great progress now that we've mended some serious engine problems.

We hope to retrofit certain components with modern equivalents (digital sign, LED lamps, etc.) without spoiling the original look. We're going to call it "The Gigabus". Our customers love the name.

Some unique factors about the bus include the dual headlamps (typical of this series, but rare overall), the spaced chrome accents (also typical), and the single entry door (only one like this I've ever seen).

Looking forward to feedback from you bus-lovers![/list]e

[JimmiB]

Coach number 616 it was built in October 1966 for Nantasket Transportation Co. in Hull, MA., as fleet number 47.
When I drove for Reading (PA) Bus Co. we had a half dozen of this model. I don't know what tranny they had, but they were always in for repair. The transmissions were always going bad. On grades they kept downshifting then slamming into the higher gear over and over.

[JimmiB]

Just did some checking on Google. All I could find was that Nantasket Transportation operated between Hingham and Hull. Service started in 1920 and ceased operations in 1976. The route still operates as part of MBTA.

[Mr. Linsky]

NiftyNate,

According to records, your bus - a 1966 TDH 3501 - was equipped with a new 478 cubic inch V-6 truck Diesel engine with a Hydraulic Transmission assumed to be a beefed up version of the same Hydra-Matic units used in Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs of the time.

Your gear selector should be of the dual range type and located on the steering column.

I am unsure as to whether the Toro-Flow Diesel (which is what you have) and the gasoline version use the same Hydra-Matic - nothing in literature defines that point.

Hope that helps you, and good luck with the project.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[NiftyNate]

Wow, thanks for all your helpful feedback, folks!
Now I know where it came from. I knew it was a 1966, but that was all I could find historically.

The transmission has some kind of leak that we're trying to find, but it runs well enough to drive around a bit. I know the transmission will have to be rebuilt somewhere down the line, but all I can afford to do right now is cheat it for a bit.

From what I understand, the higher-geared versions of these are notorious for blowing head gaskets. This survived one 20-minute highway trip at 60MPH with no ill effects, but took a mile or two to get anywhere near top speed (which is harrowing - I don't plan to repeat it with a vehicle this size).

If there's any additional advice you can provide about good driving habits and problems to watch out for, I'm all ears. :)

[NiftyNate]

Here's an old picture of the view just above the steering column, to confirm your wonders about the automatic transmission:

[Mr. Linsky]

NiftyNate,

Glad we could help you and will continue to do what we can in that respect.

No GM 'transit' bus was ever marketed with a 'standard equipment' rear door - it was always an option on the part of the buyer and appeared on well over 90% of those sold.

Your Hydra-Matic transmission is a GM '400' series and a 'cake walk' to repair even today - so not to fret about that!

Most of us in the business of researching and reporting on the history of 'rubber tire' transportation in the U.S. have libraries filled with virtually every book on the subject (I know I do!).

In the case of Yellow/GM products, we are very fortunate to have the records of the Ohio Museum of Transportation at our fingertips such as you will see for the production of the TDH and TGH 3501's at the following URL;

http://www.omot.org/roster/GMOldLookList/tdh3501.html

Keep in touch.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[NiftyNate]

Thanks a ton for your interest and support. I will update the first post periodically as I learn more and more about my coach/camper. I love to share my project, and I think feedback from you experts will help me get where I need to go.


Mr. Linksy, what do you think of my plans to make a rolling computer shop?

Are you folks interested in seeing my ugly interior work (camper stuff)?

[Mr. Linsky]

NiftyNate,

Great choice for your Avatar - good thinking!

Whatever you elect to do with the interior is fine with me but what I would suggest as far as the exterior is to bring it to all original mint condition including the front door.

As a rolling computer repair shop I'm sure that you'll have a lot of expensive equipment aboard and I would recommend darkening the windows very sedately and not advertising on the exterior what the bus does unless you can do it cleverly in advertising frames that don't suggest that the bus has anything to do with the business.

I would further flag and number the bus either fictitiously or as the original owner had it (if that company is defunct).

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[NiftyNate]

Well, that's a pretty great suggestion, but...


I already have plans for the exterior. I intend to tint the windows (not depicted), but I also plan to keep it "camper style", with a Fifth-Avenue-esque pattern ( Picture Here ) .

For security, I'll be installing an alarm system and internal (hidden) surveillance camera. A disguise would be fun if this was purely recreational, but since I'm representing a business, I feel that such a tribute is not necessary.

There's no sign of the original paint job. I wish I could find a photo of it, but sadly there doesn't seem to be anything on the Internet at the moment. Perhaps I'll take a trip to Hull soon. If I do find an original photo of the old paint, I'm going to frame it. I also plan to decorate the upper interior panel with throwback advertisements, including several for the Nantasket Transportation Company.

I already have an established business (see our website here) with a storefront and a parking lot with just enough room for the bus to park out front. There's no sense in hiding its purpose when the whole point is to advertise my company (in addition to providing mobile IT services). Much of the project has been promised to potential investors based on the ideas of visually modernizing small parts of the exterior, such as the digital destination sign and LED lamps (where possible).

Not only do such modern accessories compliment the nature of the business (and help advertise it), but they're also much more affordable than a restoration. Despite the success of my company in terms of customer satisfaction, we aren't making a big surplus of money (I don't believe in overcharging for good work). This is a shoestring project until further notice.

[ripta42]

There's some decent information on Nantasket Transportation in the MBTA route history from Boston Street Railway Association's Rollsign magazine:

http://www.transithistory.org/roster/MBTARouteHistory.pdf

The main entry for Nantasket Transportation is on page 257. The route has been operated sporadically by nine different contractors since Nantasket Transportation's demise; it's presently operated by Joseph's Transportation.

[NiftyNate]

Thanks for the helpful info.

No comments on anything else in this thread?

[gdleggett]

I grew up around the corner from Nantasket Beach and am quite familiar with your bus. It operated between Hull and Hingham for the Nantasket Transportation Company until the mid-1970s. The bus was painted white from the roof to just below the windows, and the lower half was painted a cool (what we'd now call "retro") greenish blue, almost a Caribbean blue. It may have had a black cheat line between the white and blue like the MBTA Old Looks had in their final colors (white-over-battleship gray with a black cheat line).

The Nantasket Transportation Company also operated some 29-foot GMC Fishbowls. I believer they, too, were painted white over greenish blue. At least one of the Fishbowls had fleet #49.

I've searched for articles or photos of these buses to no avail, and have considered driving to Hull and checking historical archives for any information on these classics. I'm glad to hear that one ended up in good hands!

[JimmiB]

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the information. I see NiftyNate hasn't posted since 2013 but we always are interested in updates, especially for little know bus companies. I would think that it would look pretty good with a white over blue/green livery.