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'ODDITIES OTHER THAN FROM GM'
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Mr. Linsky
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: 'ODDITIES OTHER THAN FROM GM' Reply with quote

Seen in Boston sometime in 1965 and alleged to be operating for the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (although I cannot vouch for that fact) is fleet # 2915 - an early fifties 44 passenger White Motor Company Model 1144.

The distinctive oddity about this bus is the rare use of a left side exit door and, while I have no personal experience with such a feature, I can speculate that it could have been for more rapid passenger egress at terminals or to be used at bus stops with special applications.

Interestingly, while I have seen this configuration on other Whites as well as some Twins and ACF's, I don't believe I've ever seen it on a GM Old or New Look (although I'm sure there may have been some and I missed them).

BTW; a positive identification of # 2915's affiliation might be recognized from the decal under the driver's window.

Image courtesy of 'Vintage-Vault75' and is up for bid on eBay as item # 181133717134.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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NorthShore



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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The left side exit door was specified manly on trolley buses by Boston MTA and later MBTA (the "T") for routes that interfaced with rapid transit lines.
The bus is at the same level as the platform. The latest MBTA Neoplan trolleybuses even have this feature.
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ripta42
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is indeed an MBTA (formerly MTA) 1951 White 1144. The order of 30 was the last batch of gasoline buses purchased by the MTA, and half of them were equipped with left side doors.

2918, seen here at left, is preserved at Seashore:

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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2915 was one of 20 ex-MTA White model 1144 gasoline-powered buses that were leased by the newly-created MBTA to the Middlesex & Boston bus system in 1964-65, as evidenced by the large round logo beneath the driver's window. The left-hand doors were ordered on these and various other buses by the Boston Elevated Railway and later the MTA for service at rapid transit stations such as Broadway where the busway was essentially unchanged from the streetcar era. The Whites were replaced in 1966 by ex-MTA GM Old Look buses bumped off the T routes by a large fleet of New Look buses.

There was an excellent history of the M&B system in April-June 2009 edition of Motor Coach Age. Highly recommended reading.

Jim D.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an observation, and a thanks to those of you who assisted on # 2915's lineage.

It's easy to see why the White Motor Company dropped out of bus manufacture so early on when you consider that while their later post war 1100 models did have an updated front clip as seen in Michael's above photo, the bodies were virtually unchanged from the 700 series introduced in 1937.

Even Twin Coach and ACF-Brill made an attempt at completely new post war offering which, of course, were too little too late to compete with the GM juggernaut.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, your not looking at this photo through your rear view mirror nor would it be considered an oddity in New South Wales, Australia!

Seen possibly at its garage facility in the early fifties is a 44 passenger White Motor Company Model 798 manufactured sometime between 1940 and 1948 and operating in school service under the Queanbeyan-Canberra flag (which could be the name of the company or of the two New South Wales cities that it serves.

The oddity to us here in the U.S. is, of course, this White's right hand drive.

While GM, Mack and others did have a presence 'down under', it was generally a separate division that built or licensed the building of buses to Australian specification and not usually in the image of their American counterparts although they did carry the marques.

However, in White's case all buses for foreign distribution were built and shipped directly from their Cleveland, Ohio plants.

Of note on the focus is the placement of a 'School Bus' banner in a rather obscure location.

Photo courtesy of 'tysghb59b' and is available on eBay as item # 251270934618.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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frankie



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keeping with the theme of St. Louis' PCC buses, GM was not the only buses to mimic them. Orders in 1940 were put in for 20 Mack Model CY buses and 80 Yellow TG-3601 buses (as discussed in GM Old Look Oddities). The Mack delivery were 1940 model CY-3G buses numbered 4100 through 4119. The not yet numbered examples shown here were posed at the factory for it's official "builder's" photos. The GM's were considered 1941 models.

Unlike its GM counterparts which got its own model number, Mack simply built to order. The CY's were much shorter only seating 25. Both Macks and first order GMs all shared the same features including the sharp angled windshields and "next bus" center light.

Both the standee windows and angled windshield were a first for Mack in a production bus, not to be duplicated until 1946 with the advent of the post-war C-41.

I've also included a photo of a regular production CY for comparison.

Photos courtesy of the MBS for educational purposes.





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MaBSTOA 15



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamaica Omnibus in Kingston also had right hand drive Whites. I believe they were models 798.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seen sometime in the 1950's at its company's Atlantic Station with a fleet number originally in the 1700 series is a 1940 31 passenger Kenworth Model 601 chassis supporting a body built by Pacific Car and Foundry (no relation to American or Canadian Car and Foundry) and was one of thirty one likenesses that operated for the Seattle Transit System (STS) of Seattle, Washington.

The Model 601, with a wheelbase of 162 inches and power derived from a Hall-Scott model 135 gasoline engine of pancake design placed underfloor amidships, was among Kenworth's first modern transit buses.

Kenworth, a top name in heavy truck manufacture out of Seattle, dabbled in bus chassis from the early twenties to the late fifties with a customer base mainly in the northwestern U.S. and Canada but was never really considered a competitor in the marketplace with most of its sales being in handfuls.

Looking like a shadow of its former self, our focus sits on supports and has been converted to a vault bus for TSS and apparently is alarmed as evidenced by the foil across the windshield.

The board just over the first passenger window hides the original side destination sign and I would imagine that the 'please close windows' sign refers to those aft of the rear door that are obviously not in the protected area.

Photo courtesy '90mac' and is available on eBay as item # 380687703446.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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frankie



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some photos defy explanation. These two examples certainly fits the bill, but I'll give it a shot.

The Japanese shortie looks fully functional as a tour bus, but I hate to think what kind of a ride it would give with such a short wheelbase. I would venture to say that it's use for promotional purposes rather than revenue service.



What looks like something from the Cuban bus scene of yesteryear, the venue here is Auckland, New Zealand. What looks like a converted airport transporter with an apron tractor to pull it, this certainly is an odd paring of two vehicles. The bus promotes the White Lady, a popular hamburger joint. I'm not sure where the garbage can comes into play.

A very short Youtube feature of it follows the photo.

Frankie

Photos from unknown sources and used for educational purposes



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvq6r1DXGxM
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talk about rear overhang!

I would say that the Thomas Blue Bird School Bus pictured below is either the right body on the wrong chassis or the wrong body on the right chassis!

What could they have been thinking?

Could you picture this on the twists and turns of the narrow streets of downtown Manhattan in rush hour?

BTW; this bus, located in Moscow Mills, Missouri, is for sale on eBay at $14,995.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York



Last edited by Mr. Linsky on Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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frankie



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

40 foot school buses (including Thomas and Blue Bird) with front engines have long overhangs - more or less out of necessity for weight distribution over the axles. Rear engine models have a much shorter rear overhang, but a much longer wheelbase.

Our school district employs Blue Bird FE (front engine) models and are very maneuverable in the subdivisions narrow streets. I think they'll feel at home on the Manhattan streets.

BTW, Moscow Mills is 15 miles up the road from me. I may have to check this bus out.

Frankie
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankie wrote:
40 foot school buses (including Thomas and Blue Bird) with front engines have long overhangs - more or less out of necessity for weight distribution over the axles. Rear engine models have a much shorter rear overhang, but a much longer wheelbase.

Our school district employs Blue Bird FE (front engine) models and are very maneuverable in the subdivisions narrow streets. I think they'll feel at home on the Manhattan streets.

BTW, Moscow Mills is 15 miles up the road from me. I may have to check this bus out.

Photo thanks to the Motor Bus Society.

Frankie



Frankie,

Your comment about Blue Bird's feeling at home on Manhattan streets is acceptable only if they would be of standard overhangs but certainly not as seen on the Moscow Mills bus and if you've ever driven a bus you'd know why!

NYCTS drivers complained bitterly about the overhangs on the 5101's at nearly eleven feet which was the same on Chicago's 5502's and all due to the fact that GM placed these bodies on short wheelbases which was corrected on all subsequent 5100 models.

You have to understand that as a vehicle turns that part that is aft of the center of the rear axle turns in the opposite direction and, if that 'overhang' is great enough, the rear end would turn into either oncoming or opposing traffic lanes or, beyond that, on tight streets (as in Manhattan) could well brush the sides of parked cars.

There is little question in my mind that the Moscow Mills job has an overhang far in excess of eleven feet.

BTW; you put about a half dozen 400 pound Sumo wrestlers in the back seats of that school bus and I'd bet that the front end would leave the ground!

I have placed a side view of a NYC 5101 for comparison.

Photo thanks to the Motor Bus Society.

Regards

Mr. 'L'

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frankie



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:


NYCTS drivers complained bitterly about the overhangs on the 5101's at nearly eleven feet which was the same on Chicago's 5502's and all due to the fact that GM placed these bodies on short wheelbases which was corrected on all subsequent 5100 models.

You have to understand that as a vehicle turns that part that is aft of the center of the rear axle turns in the opposite direction and, if that 'overhang' is great enough, the rear end would turn into either oncoming or opposing traffic lanes or, beyond that, on tight streets (as in Manhattan) could well brush the sides of parked cars.




It's funny that you mentioned the 5101's. This was what I was basing my statement of Blue Birds being at home in New York, however your account of driver's complaints is something I never knew. Interesting! Thanks for that tidbit.

BTW Mr. L, I sure hate to have been the drivers of Super Twin Coach 58-DW #400 that was used as a demo back in late 1947. With no horizontal articulation, it's almost like having a 30 foot overhang. What was TC thinking when they designed them?

Frankie
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a photo taken sometime after 1947 at the W. 77th. Street and S. Vincennes Avenue yards and shops of the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) on the city's South Side, is fleet # BW-108 - a 1937 27 passenger White Motor Company Model 805M and one of thirty three likenesses originally numbered in the 4, 5, and 800's and purchased in increments between 1937 and 1939 by Chicago Surface Lines, Inc,

Built upon a 193 inch wheelbase White truck chassis and carrying a custom built body by Bender of Cleveland, the model 805M derived power from a 270 cubic inch 6 cylinder in house model 11A truck engine mounted up front along side the driver.

#BW-108 enjoyed a second life after the CTA takeover in 1947 as an overhead wire test car and is the only White bus that this writer has ever seen with trolley poles.

Chicago Surface Lines (no relation to Chicago Motor Coach) was operator of the street railway system in Chicago, Illinois, from 1913 to 1947 and began bus service in 1927 using mostly medium sized equipment as feeders to their traction lines.

The firm is a predecessor of today's publicly owned Chicago Transit Authority.

Photo courtesy of 'jpspcc699' and is available on eBay as item # 321178217721.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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