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'UNTRUTH IN ADVERTISING'

 
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:30 am    Post subject: 'UNTRUTH IN ADVERTISING' Reply with quote

The GM '5100' ad campaign brochure below is very interesting especially the second page showing both specs for the series and some major buyers including four in New York City.

The error, of course, is in the model shown on the cover of the booklet which, in actuality, is a '5500' (a TDH 5502 to be exact) and one of one hundred built exclusively for Chicago Motor Coach.

This error was not deliberate and I have found one or two other GM Coach brochures that had the wrong model pictured.

This was a result of very poor communication between the engineering department and a minor clerk in the sales department who probably sent the wrong information to the print shop.

Photos thanks to Bruce K. of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York


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timecruncher



Age: 67
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... And 25 to Louisville Railway Company in late 1950/early 1951. Great buses, ran until late 1975.



timecruncher
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

timecruncher,

Great photo - thanks for sharing.

The word 'elegant' should be redefined by Webster as being a Louisville Transit GM Model TDH 5103!

Your picture really put it where it was at!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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NorthShore



Age: 70
Joined: 18 Mar 2012
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"51" refers to the year 1951.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NorthShore,

It's a coincidence - if you read the brochure carefully, you'll see that the reference to '51' was always capacity which, at the time, was a new concept that GM was pushing.

The whole campaign was based upon replacing smaller capacity buses with less larger ones - thus, saving in labor, maintenance and fuel.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr 'L' -

Noted your comment, just above. For myself, I'd say, Yes - No - Don't Know. I have not had the benefit of actually meeting and talking
with the GMC - T&C guys, to get more about their thinking. But, yes, GM use of "51" noted seat capacity...

Yes, the larger G M COACH larger Diesels proved far superior to "gas" rolling stock. I have personally heard testimony of transit (fleet)
"pros" state a GM TDH-51xx of the time cheaper to operate than an older thirty (30) seat or more gas bus.

The in service performance of the GM TDH-51xx so good, used to wipe out entire fleets of Trolley Coaches and PCC Cars. Both the latter
types thought some kinds of panaceas, when first purchased. The transit texts, of pre-WWII date did not consider possibility of fifty-one
(51) seat, Diesel City Transit coaches. Technology always changes things!..

.......................Vern................
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we have another GM '51's' ad that makes little sense and gives incorrect figures in at least one instance;

The background photo in the ad is all wrong because it was taken in war time as can be seen by the double sideswipe molding in a glimpse of the rear of the bus in the center of the image (those moldings were meant to protect the thinner steal body panels that replaced aluminum during the onset of the war) and, of course, GM built no 51 passenger bus before 1948.

The 51 also could not have meant the year because Green Bus Lines, one of the listed customers, had no 40 footers until 1952 and then between that time and the end of heavy duty Old Look production in 1959 only had a total of twenty-five and not the fifty as suggested.

Further, being an ad for the 51 passenger job, the background photo should have at least shown paired window 5100's.

And finally, the Triboro Coach enumeration is correct which would mean that this ad was published no earlier than 1957.

I rest my case!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr 'L' -

Keep in mind we are thinking of "ad men" here. Long known to have great imagination, and perhaps playing a bit fast and loose with the truth.

Now, it would be good to nail down a firm 1957 date. This creates a dilemma, in that many copies of the Transit magazine of the era had stunning,
different every month, G M T&C color pages for its latest deliveries.

Again, and YES: With G M, the "51-" noted a nominal seat capacity. Nothing else.

.........................Vern.....................
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roymanning2000



Age: 70
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look at the TDH 5103 delivery list at the OMOT site, you can find most of the orders in the ad among buses delivered in 1950 and 1951.

For example, the 80 buses for Cincinnati were delivered in two batches. Forty 5103's delivered in January-February, 1951 and forty more in March of the same year. Similarly, Louisville's 25, St. Louis' 75 and the 50 for Chicago Motor Coach can be spotted in the list around the same time. The Key and Los Angeles orders are mixed in there, too.

The ad shows Cleveland as receving 50 but the list shows 80 being delivered by March, 1951. That would seem to indicate Cleveland increased its order after the ad ran.

The 37 buses for Pacific Greyhound were TDM 5103's delivered in mid-1951.

I couldn't find the Green/Triboro orders in that same time frame. There are TDH5104's in September, 1952 but not in the numbers appearing in the ad.

Roy
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JimmiB



Age: 75
Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 516
Location: Lebanon, PA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OMOT roster shows Green Lines getting 5104's, fleet numbers 351-365 in 9/52 and Triboro fleet numbers 1181-1195, same date.

Also shows Green Lines getting 5106's, fleet numbers 151-160 in 3/59 and Triboro fleet numbers 701-715 in 4/57.
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