BusTalk Forum Index BusTalk
A Community Discussing Buses and Bus Operations Worldwide!
 
 BusTalk MainBusTalk Main FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups BusTalk GalleriesBusTalk Galleries   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

'THE BUSES OF CAPITAL & D.C. TRANSIT'
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> Surface Transit - Eastern United States
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:44 am    Post subject: 'THE BUSES OF CAPITAL & D.C. TRANSIT' Reply with quote

Seen on a frosty day in January of 1962 and signed for the L 4 Line to Chevy Chase Center is fleet # 5423 - a 1953 White Motor Company Model 1150 DW (the W meaning wide bodied) and one of 147 delivered originally to the Capital Transit Company of Washington, D.C. and which were then inherited by Capital's successor D.C. Transit.

Powered by Cummins NHHBI-600 underfloor pancake Diesel engines combined with Spicer 918 torque converters, these forty foot long 102 inch wide coaches were among the very last to see passage through White's assembly lines as all bus production ended for that manufacturer in October of the same year.

Unique to the Capital order was the rather odd looking intake over the destination sign that delivered fresh air directly to ceiling anemostats (somewhat akin to GM's ThermoMatic system but no where near as sophisticated).

According to Motor Bus Society records, none of D.C.'s Whites have been preserved.

Photo courtesy of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MR 'L' -

A solid product, and a very good Coach. Few photos are in 'Net sources. In the later units of the entire order
(in CTCo 5400 - 5500 series), note the changed treatment of vents, in area below windshield.

....................Vern......................
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vern,

Thanks,

What I failed to note in the photo was the 'lurking' GM 45 or 5300 New Look to the left edge of the frame.

Seventy-Five TDH 5301's numbered 5700 to 5774 and twenty-five TDH 4517's numbered 4920 to 4944 and all of which being Air Conditioned were the first GM New Look buses off the line and were delivered to DCT in September of 1959.

These buses along with a large order of AC equipped TDH 5105's from 1958 made D.C. Transit the operator of the largest fleet of Air Conditioned transits in the world at the time!

Pictured below is fleet # 4776 which was part of an additional order of TDH 4517's that arrived three months later.

Note the fancy chromium wheel covers - obviously a 'decorator' touch by Mrs. Chalk (owner's wife) - and the word 'ARCTICOOLER' on the roof which, by the way, must have been exclusively coined by D.C. because it does not appear anywhere in GM's vocabulary!

Enjoy,

Mr. 'L'

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MR 'L' -

The 5700 types? Oh, yes, certainly! I was on a DC-ERA/ NCHMT charter, in Last Great Days Of Rail, where we all had the
opportunity to ride the new coaches. It was the future, whether all the riders or O. Roy Chalk liked it.

Yes, yes! Chalk did have his flamboyant side. In fact, Washington needed the "flash" he brought along with his package!
Though sources (see Wikipedia) report highly of the man, I continue to wonder whether he did enough "due diligence"
before getting involved with the DC mess. Note, no reports to be found whereby N C L ever looked at the deal! (The
latter were surely not stupid people!)

BTW. The earlier sale of C T Co, from the power company, to Lou Wolfson (also, see Wikipedia) bordered on too good to
be true. In the transfer, Wolfson received some healthy cash reserves. He thought, properly to him at least, the money
properly disbursed to long suffering share holders. So much for foolishness in putting it into new rolling stock!

............................Vern......................
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seen in demonstrator service in the nation's capital in early 1947 is fleet number 5100 - a 1947 White Motor Company Model 798 which was soon followed by an order of ninety-nine like models numbered 5101 to 5199 delivered in increments between 1947 and 1948 to the Capital Transit Company of Washington, D.C.

The 44 passenger 96 inch wide model 798, which had its beginnings in 1940 mostly in suburban configuration, caught on with transit operators soon after and between 1940 and 1949 became White's all time best selling bus with well over 3,000 copies in service.

Capital's versions, which were their first post war White's and which featured a White designed 'Hydro-Torque' automatic transmission, were specified with a larger three section front destination sign as well as two units built into the roof just above the second and third passenger windows (must have been a nightmare for drivers at the end of each run!).

While bus # 5100 below shows a set of trolley like old fashioned 'Golden Glow' headlamps, the subsequent order that followed were equipped with modern sealed beams.

Also of interest on these and all Whites of the era was the ventilation blister just above the front destination sign designed to allow outside air flowing by it to pull out stale inside air some of which being generated by the fumes emitted from the under floor amidships engines.

Photo thanks to Bruce K. of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seen on its way to the Washington Navy Yard in the nation's capital (actual home of NCIS!) sometime in 1964 is fleet number 5355 - a 1958 GM Coach Model TDH 5105 (ser# 3375) and one of twenty numbered 5355 to 5374 purchased new in 1958 by Houston Transit Company of Houston, Texas and sold to D.C. in 1961 by Houston's successor Rapid Transit Lines.

Unlike D.C.'s own fleet of 67 5105's equipped with factory air conditioning, # 5355 and its siblings did have an extra set of floor vents under the windshield to keep drivers a little bit more comfortable on humid summer days (the extra vents were not uncommon among southern tier operators such as Houston).

In spite of already having a 'stable' of some of the first GM New Looks off the line in 1959, D.C. sought to continue to bolster its fleet with the proven reliability of the 5105 no matter from where.

Photo courtesy of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MR 'L' -

Presumably, this photo at (generally northwesterly) end of Route 54 - Fourteenth Street (NW)...
Site: 14TH & COLORADO NW...

Indeed! "Roy" Chalk needed to locate good equipment anywhere found! He later figured he,
"...made a deal with the Devil..." in the required scheme which mandated a much too quick
schedule of equipment replacement...

By Treasury Dept (IRS) Schedules, the later PCC Cars could have been depreciated out to 1973...

This gentleman appears to have a line on CAPITAL TRANSIT Items...
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/mar-1942-capital-transit-street-car-guide-map-wash

......................Vern.....................
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seen in 1971 in the nation's capital and apparently standing in front of a typical granite clad government building is fleet number 282 - a 1947 White Motor Company Model 798 and one of twenty numbered from 271 to 290 delivered in that year and operating for the Washington, Virginia and Maryland Coach Company (WV&M).

A familiar sight to commuters for nearly a half century in both downtown Washington and the environs of Northern Virginia were the buses WV&M lovingly and more familiarly known as 'The Arnold Lines' for company founder Leon Arnold.

In April of 1964, ownership of WV&M was transferred to D.C. Transit and, while the former maintained its own flag for legal purposes, all of its usable equipment was repainted to the latter's trade mark colors and design scheme.

WV&M will be best remembered for its big 44 passenger White Model 798's which counted at over 100 from the forties and ran for well over two decades with some even being re-engined to Leyland Diesels.

There's some kind of 'magical aura' about White buses but I have yet to figure out what it is!

Photo thanks to Bruce K. of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently, D.C. Transit, the one time ruler of the roadways in the environs of the nation's capital, did do its share of charter work as can be seen in the attachment below of fleet # 51 - a 1965 GM Model SDM (mechanical transmission) 5302 and one of thirty likenesses numbered 25 to 54 delivered in increments between 1964 and 1965.

# 51 is shown on a rainy day sometime in 1968 in charter and waiting at what appears to be either an outdoor stadium or arena for its homeward bound passengers.

Of course, no decent D.C. Transit New Look would have been caught dead without its custom stainless wheel covers which added a nice touch to an already pleasant looking model (it would be interesting to find out if these were a GM option or an aftermarket product).

As with most suburbans and parlor cars of the era, # 51 carried a roof top mounted AM/FM radio antenna to pipe in soothing music for drivers and passengers.

By the special clips to either side of the destination sign it is obvious that D.C.'s suburbans were also called upon for school duties in their spare time.

Photo thanks to Bruce K. of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MR 'L' -

A.: TRUE! D C T S evidently did hold I C C Authority which also provided "rights" to run charters, between DC region base area,
and (presumably) all points in US.

Note here, however, that D C T S #51 isn't "plated" right to run very far. Too, recall when O. Roy Chalk acquired former C T Co,
in an early move he acquired a group of ACF-BRILL IC-41 types, IIRC, ex the Charlottesville, VA TWYS line. These had Cummins
Power, and a group numbered (don't recall how many), 1 thru 24. I recall a movie, street scenes in Lower Manhattan, which
caught a view of several of the IC-41 coaches in the City.

AFAIK, No! the line didn't do the ambitious, as for example, charters to Yellowstone and Grand Canyon. The "BRILLS" would have
been up to it, but D C T S apparently not in that market. IIRC, near all of any Charter work was Middle Atlantic regional...

Hardware Note - D C T S #51: IIRC, don't put too much weight on the hardware "clips" you noted. Can't recall if there was much
involvement with "school tripper" runs. Rather, seems to me the rail cars had the clips, too. The line had past practice in display of
various small flags, from time to time.

......................Vern...................
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
roymanning2000



Age: 75
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 198

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that these suburbans got up to Canada on occasion for Expo 67. Back in the days before 40-foot restroom-equipped over-the-road buses were so common, suburbans like these could often be seen pretty far from home.

Roy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roy -

Thanks! You think D C T S had a"book" of Montreal and Toronto work? I can go for that. "Niagara Falls" trips had solid following, too...

BTW. The old P S N J masterful at running Charters with Suburban types (sans restrooms). Seems to me on NYC - DC runs, it relied on
enroute stops. In this case, likely a big player at Clement's Rest., DE (Jct. USH 13 & 40)...

.......................Vern........................
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JimmiB



Age: 81
Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 516
Location: Lebanon, PA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vern, you had me curious so I enlarged and enhanced that photo. While there is definately a clip on the driver's side, the passenger side sure looks like a flag holder.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimmiB -

THANKS! Did a "ZOOM" in on it here. Beats me what the exact meaning of the shadows we see in this old view.

I'm "so-so" in thinking these coaches ever did "school tripper" runs. I have seen reports the A C F - BRILL IC-41
(DCTS #1 - #10)
(?) coaches seen, from time to time on Rush Hour L1 - CONNECTICUT AVE EXPRESS schedules.

I haven't run into any items of whatever coaches numbered DCTS #11 - #24...

............................Vern......................
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They say that old D.C. Transits never die - they just fade away!

Pictured is what is left of a D.C. Transit 1949 White Motor Company Model 1144 which was found at the beginning of the Falls Ridge Trail in the George Washington National Forest outside of Covington, Virginia (date unknown).

Originally purchased by D.C.'s predecessor Capital Transit, these 1144's, which represented White's last gasp in bus manufacture, featured a new 681 cubic inch 210 horsepower twelve cylinder underfloor engine coupled with a White designed Hydro-Torque automatic transmission, a remodeled front clip and a novel three section destination sign as specified by D.C.

Locals say that this wayward coach suffered the indignity of becoming a sanctuary for hobos as can be seen by the composition boards that adorned the windows and, to compound that felony, suffered the wrath of an irate tree trunk that landed on its roof.

A sad ending to a life of dedicated service in our nation's capital!

Photos by halliew of Flickr.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> Surface Transit - Eastern United States All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group