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GM NEW LOOK ODDITIES
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gmnewlook



Age: 45
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Montreal, QC

PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Taken in October of 1988 by photographer Rob Hutchinson on West Beaver Creek Road at Pollard Street in Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada is fleet # 7526 - a 1975 45 passenger GMDD coach modeled as a T6H-4523N and operating for York Region Transit (YRT) of that North of the border city.

What is unusual about this bus, which was purchased used from Brampton Transit, is that although it is in transit configuration it was ordered sans standee glasses and the usual decorative aluminum panel that would have replaced them - the absence of transoms in this case was probably to accommodate parcel racks for charter work and the absence of the molding certainly makes # 7526 look a bit odd.

York Region Transit operates the transit service in the area of York, north of Toronto and its services include the City of Vaughan, and at least eight surrounding municipalities which were all amalgamated under the York Region flag in January 2001 with operations and funding controlled by that entity.

Some information culled from Wikipedia.

Photo courtesy of 'omicrondelta' and is available at eBay as item # 221513434799.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York


Sorry to say, but that photo was not taken in 1988. YRT did not exist back then. Wink Richmond HIll Transit was one of the transit agencies merged to for YRT. I think 7526 was one of the last New Looks retired by YRT, but I could be wrong. I'm from Montreal, so Greater Toronto transit is not my specialty, lol. Smile
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really going to go out on a limb on this one because its got me befuddled!

Our focus, parked in front of #29 Park Row in downtown Manhattan sometime in the 70's and carrying fleet#1 in service as a 'Surface Command Bus', appears to be a second generation GM New Look built between 1963 and 1968 and that's where the familiarity ends.

According to Hoyle (not Fred the astronomer) the configuration of the model we see never existed which leads me to believe that this was a cut-down of a 5300 series as evidenced by the length of the sliders (the only New Look model that did have one slider followed by an emergency door window and then two more sliders beyond that was the light duty 3300 series but their windows were much shorter).

I would go a step further by saying that #1 was possibly a suburban since it is sans transoms although they could have been removed for interior considerations, the plastic cowl on the forward section of the roof to protect the radio antenna makes it almost unquestionably ex Transit Authority and the air conditioner condenser cabinet at the rear of the roof is heavy duty GM and not Thermo King as used on the Toro Flow Diesels in the 3300's.

Now, about the only question left to answer is what department used the bus - was it Transit Authority or Police Department (maybe the extra pin stripe below the window belt tells that story).

Photo courtesy of '90mac' and is available at eBay as item # 381048025995.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Hart Bus



Age: 67
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 1104

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WCA

The picture was taken sometime after May 1971,. I went to Pace College, located at 41 Park Row.just north of where our subject is photographed from 1967-1971. There was never a Burger King on that corner while I was a student.

The TA has a cut-down Fishbowl named "The Phoenix" that looks similar. I once saw it at a Bus Roadeo. One of the passenger side windows is hinged so that different prizes, etc can be given out.


ECA
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Q65A



Age: 60
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1634
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll bet this was a special project for the shop guys at ENY years ago.
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 63
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In reality this is a 1967 TDH-5303 serial number 5392 and it was ex-MaBSTOA fleet number 8602.

After the cut down it was re-numbered 1000 and used by NYCTA/MaBSTOA as their Surface Command Bus.

The reason for lacking standee windows is because this series, 8301-8780, had batwings and a/c. Also, the roof top "blister" was to house the two-way radio equipment.. All three features were factory installed.

When exactly the bus was cut down or the reason as to why it was done are unknown to me.


Last edited by MaBSTOA 15 on Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 63
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, note the width of the pillar between the quarter window and the first slider. Wider than normal.
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 63
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority (MSBA) also had a GM New Look cut down to 30 feet..

In their case it was a 1962 ex-Schenck Transportation TDH-5302, serial number 0581, fleet number 428 and re-numbered to EX1000 once it became a "shorty". In this case it had three sliders on either side and no small "emergency door" window and no a/c.
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15,

I took the liberty of re-running an article that I did in October of 2011 about MSBA's cut down GM New Look which reflects your facts correctly.

I can't present this as gospel but I was to understand that # EX-1000 was not the only one that MSBA altered - but I could be mistaking that for a group done in Oakland, CA. at AC Transit for downtown shoppers.

Anyway, enjoy the photos.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

encl;


I would suppose that this piece belongs in 'GM New Look Oddities' in another thread but it is 'home town' to so many of us that I thought it to be more fitting under Long Island.

Pictured in two poses is fleet # EX 1000 - a 1962 model that started life as a TDH 5302 carrying fleet # 428 for the Schenck Transportation Company, Inc., of Floral Park, New York but was transferred to the Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority (MSBA) in 1973 clearly showing its post takeover MSBA livery, and the fact that it has been very skillfully cut down to a 30 passenger capacity.

I can't tell you exactly when or by whom the surgery was performed except to say that EX 1000 had originally been renumbered by MSBA as 474 which may indicate that the alteration occurred after its acquisition by the Authority.

Of note is the elimination of both the rear and emergency doors and the fact that EX 1000 was in use as a 'Free Goodwill' Mini Bus at the time the images were captured.

Photos courtesy of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York




Last edited by Mr. Linsky on Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15,

I also wrote the following attachment a few years ago about the cut downs at AC Transit along with the very interesting photos giving us an idea of how the jobs were accomplished;

Enjoy,

Mr. 'L'



I can't tell you whether MSBA inherited any short or shortened buses in its acquisitions or if EX 1000 was the only one that they altered merely because I can find no records dealing with those facts.

It was not uncommon for bus companies to shorten buses for special purposes - as example; AC Transit of Oakland, California shrank ten TDH 4517's for use as downtown Dial-A-Ride shopping mall shuttles (see how it was done below).

Years ago, the Hudson Body Works, of Hoboken, New Jersey was well known for cut downs in the Northeast and EX 1000 could well have been one of their jobs which could have been precipitated by a horrific accident.

Enjoy Jim Husing's photos via NorCal Bus Fans.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'




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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 63
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great photos Mr. L! Thanks

San Francisco's MUNI cut down, at least two, Mack C-49s. They were numbers 2359 and 2617. They were used on their Coit Special service.
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frankie



Age: 70
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 677
Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentlemen: The simplest way to tell from a side shot if a fishbowl is cut down or not is by the number of lug nuts on the front wheel. All 3300 series have 6 lug nuts. If you see 10 lug nuts, then it's been shorten from a 4500 or 5300 series fishbowl.

Frankie
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15,

The story of the S.F. Muni cut down Macks is interesting and I thought I'd reprise it here mostly for the many newbies to the site that may not have seen it.

Enjoy,

Mr. 'L'

encl;



Many operators years ago found special need for very short buses but still with heavy duty characteristics to accommodate unusual routes with sharp turns and steep hills and, while bus manufacturers did offer low capacity models, their power trains usually didn't equal the specific tasks required which led many properties to call upon their own shops and the ingenuity of their craftsmen to remake their own equipment.

Pictured below is fleet number 2617 - a 1960 Mack originally built as a 40 foot long 102 inch wide Model C-49-DT and one of 450 delivered to San Francisco Municipal Railway (MUNI) in increments between 1955 and 1960 (actually, the largest single order in Mack's history).

Now, a compact 27 passenger power house with its original Diesel plant, #2617 is seen coursing the # 39 Coit line in shuttle service between Fisherman's Wharf and the famous Coit Tower atop Telegraph Hill.

To augment the service, one other C-49 numbered 2359 (ex 2657) was also reworked.

Of note on #2617 is the single openable transom just forward of the rear door and the disk shaped appendages on the roof which may have to do with a ventilation system.

It is believed that one or both of these buses have been preserved.

Photo, taken in 1974, thanks to Jim Husing of NorCal Bus Fans.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[/quote]
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankie wrote:
Gentlemen: The simplest way to tell from a side shot if a fishbowl is cut down or not is by the number of lug nuts on the front wheel. All 3300 series have 6 lug nuts. If you see 10 lug nuts, then it's been shorten from a 4500 or 5300 series fishbowl.

Frankie



Frankie,

There are other very obvious difference between the baby 3300's and the heavy duty 4500 and 5300 lines.

The baby's passenger windows are the shortest of all with the 45's being at least a third longer and the 53's even longer than that.

The heating and ventilation systems are vastly different and, on the 45's and 53's, require fresh air intakes seen as rectangular shaped vents just under the center of the first window forward of both the emergency door opening and the rear door opening even if they don't have those doors.

The air conditioner condenser cabinet on the roof of a 3300 is made by Thermo King and is slightly different looking then GM's versions on the 45's and 53's.

But the best test is listening to a 3300 as it goes by powered with either a Toro-Flow truck Diesel or truck gasoline engine - your ears will know immediately!

Best to you and Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Mr. 'L'
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frankie



Age: 70
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 677
Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2015 GMC Fishbowl?

Well, not really. When is a fishbowl not a fishbowl? When it's wrapped around a 2009 Gillig Advantage. Here we see Pittsburgh's Port Authority #5617 wearing a wonderful nostalgic look of those days gone by.

Wouldn't be nice if other transit authority could wrap some of their buses with older models used in their fleets from years ago?

Frankie

Photo unaccredited, but used for educational purposes.

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ripta42
Site Admin


Age: 38
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Around 2002 or 2003, there were a handful of Liberty Lines Classics wrapped as Old Looks to promote a new syndicated run of Honeymooners reruns. Unfortunately I haven't seen any photos.
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