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'GM OLD LOOK ODDITIES'
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As we can see earlier in this thread it seems as though their were never really workable right side mirrors for buses and most operators were left to their own devices to remedy what was a difficult situation (and that's probably why my Alma mater Green Bus Lines (NY) never bothered with them from day one in the early thirties all the way into the New Look era until manufacturers were forced to provide them as standard by federal mandate).

Seen at a company facility in September of 1974 is fleet # 61 - a 1953 44 passenger GM Coach modeled as a TDH 4512 and one of an unknown number operating for the Greater Richmond Transit Company of Richmond, Virginia.

#61 shows another of the many 'Rube Goldberg' adaptations of a side view mirror that was woefully inadequate and more of a hazard than a help for drivers trying to focus on them while moving forward.

Today's ugly and almost cartoon like mirrors that extend forward of the right windshield do give drivers that quick glance view that we sure could have used years back!

Photo courtesy of '4509bus' and is available at eBay as item # 351081966904.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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JimmiB



Age: 81
Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 516
Location: Lebanon, PA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That mirror looks identical to the ones on the two used 4517's that I drove for the County of Lebanon Transit Authority. They were spring loaded so if you bumped a telephone pole they folded inward. I was told that they came from Virginia, probably from the same operator as that old look. You are correct Mr. L. They were useless unless you wanted to see your right side windows.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that the focus of this presentation is not exactly a GM Old Look in the sense that we think of a GM Old Look but stretching the imagination a bit I think we can include something else that's old and from GM's Yellow Coach division.

I am also aware of the fact that from time to time I have opened an essay in this thread by saying that what I'm showing is the oddest of the odd.

Well, you can disregard that now because I believe I have actually found the oddest of the odd in the form of fleet #80 - a 1935 41 passenger Yellow Coach modeled as a 718 and operating for New York City Omnibus Corporation (NYCO) affiliate Madison Avenue Coach Company of Manhattan, New York.

#80 may have just been the only 718 (certainly that I've ever seen) with an angled windshield ala the genuine Old Look design and probably was done in the same post war period as were many of the company's 1939 model 740's to see if it would have been feasible on the earlier Yellows in the fleet.

It probably was feasible but somehow just didn't make it as aesthetically as did its later cousins.

The angled windshield was part of a GM sponsored campaign to modernize older equipment and, while NYCO affiliates and Triboro Coach took advantage of updating their 740's, Surface Transportation's eleven 746's (Diesel Electric versions of the 740) never enjoyed such cosmetic treatments.

#80 was photographed in 1948 and is said to be traveling north on 8th. Avenue (which would be Central Park West) at 96th. Street but I have doubts about the location.

Photo courtesy of 'bk.sales' and is available at eBay as item # 271444732085.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's game time!

See if you can identify the same oddity seen on the two buses pictured below.

Both are second generation (paired window) GM Old Looks (the upper image being a 4512 from Phoenix and the lower being a 5105 from St. Louis) and both carry after market Air Conditioners that appear to be Thermo Kings although I don't believe that the A/C's have anything to do with the rarity.

Good luck!

Both photos courtesy of '4509bus' and are available at eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York



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Free-transfer



Age: 64
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm staring at the little stuff, like the stainless window sashes, the engine air intakes, the wipers and etc...could it be the divider in the destination curtain glass? That's the only thing really out of place for buses built that late.
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frankie



Age: 77
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 745
Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both buses lack air intakes above the destination sign even though St. Louis 3711 still sports the housing sans the grill.

Frankie
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankie wrote:
Both buses lack air intakes above the destination sign even though St. Louis 3711 still sports the housing sans the grill.

Frankie



Frankie/Free-transfer,

Buslist came up with the correct answer on another channel which is the missing Diesel fresh air intakes over the side quarter windows at the rear.

However, as agreed upon by all, this may have had nothing to do with the after market A/C units because there were orders of these buses delivered from the factory sans the vents including many 4801's for California.

Buslist does bring out one interesting idea in that installing the intakes inside an air conditioned bus would do a better job for the engine then ingesting hot air from the exterior.

There is only one hitch here; experts have always maintained that the hotter a Diesel engine gets the better it runs.

Go figure.

Regards to all,

Mr. 'L'
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Applicable to our above 'It's Game Time' subject, here's an interesting shot of fleet # 3700 - a 1953 51 passenger GM Coach modeled as a TDH 5105 and one of 100 likenesses numbered 3700 to 3799 delivered to St. Louis Public Service in May of that year and, with the exception of one bus going to Mexico, this was the first order of the new model off the assembly line.

#3700 is a rolling billboard for their experimental after market Air Conditioning system for express service buses and, incidentally, was equipped with external Diesel engine fresh air intakes so it's likely that all of the 3700's arrived with the vents and that they were removed on # 3711 above.

Also of note is the icy 'Air Conditioned' sign covering the ThermoMatic intake and the 'CD' decal just aft of the front wheel well indicating that it was still cold war time.

Photo courtesy of '4509bus' and is available at eBay as item # 351103163936.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seen at a company storage yard sometime in the early sixties is fleet # 414 - a 1942 Yellow Coach originally modeled as a 45 passenger TD 4505 and purchased along with eleven likenesses from the U.S. Navy in 1946 by the then Honolulu Rapid Transit Company.

Just as San Francisco and other cities did when confronted with some routes that followed steep, narrow and winding mountainous paths, Honolulu found it necessary to cut down a number of heavy duty buses to meet this challenge.

# 414 has been shortened by three full size windows reducing its seating capacity to 33 with a substantially lessened wheelbase for short turns.

Of the one dozen single door Diesel powered buses from the Navy, six were refitted for these special services on the city's # 10 and 15 lines and ran well into the late sixties.

Photo courtesy of the Motor Bus Society.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



[/quote]


I have come up with a theory as to why some bus companies (see photos above) may have ordered interior fresh air intakes for their GM Old Look Diesels (see photo below) and possibly for differing reasons.

Phoenix, on the one hand, rose from a desert in the midst of an area that is prone to both sand and dust storms the particles of which, if ingested by an engine, would be devastating - this is probably why so many Old Looks to Southern California were so equipped.

St. Louis, on the other hand, faced high temperatures and humidity during the summer months and may have found that pre-cooled and dehumidified interior air would be healthier for their engines.

Lower photo 'borrowed' for educational purposes only.
Upper Phoenix and St. Louis images credited earlier in this thread.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is really a new one on me!

The Second World War brought about great hardship for the average motorist when the U.S. Office of Price Administration (OPA) imposed strict rationing of what gasoline supplies it allotted for civilian use thereby forcing John Q. Public to leave his car in the driveway and opt for mass transit.

The innovative engineers and mechanics of the Chicago Motor Coach Company, suddenly burdened with throngs of new riders, came up with the idea of the 'standing room only' bus during rush hour operations.

It was dubbed a 'stand sit' arrangement in which wooden folding chairs (much like those for a card table) replaced standard seating and when pulled up or closed created over double the rated capacity.

Seen below standing at rest somewhere in the environs of the 'Windy City' in 1942 is fleet # 705 - a 1936 36 passenger Yellow Coach modeled as a 731 and showing the unusual seating configuration.

It is unclear as to how many of the company's fleet saw this clever modification which was certainly welcomed by its riders.

Note the giant 'V' for victory (which was bright red) under the windshield.

Photo courtesy of the Motor Bus Society.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York



Last edited by Mr. Linsky on Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Q65A



Age: 66
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
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Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please don't mention this stand-sit idea to anyone in the airline industry Smile
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q65A wrote:
Please don't mention this stand-sit idea to anyone in the airline industry Smile



Bob,

Believe it or not there was an airline sometime back that had the idea of standing seats - I don't remember what company it was but just the suggestion of such an accommodation went over like a lead balloon!

Regards and Happy Fourth.

Mr. 'L'
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
This is really a new one on me!

The Second World War brought about great hardship for the average motorist when the U.S. Office of Price Administration (OPA) imposed strict rationing of what gasoline supplies it allotted for civilian use thereby forcing John Q. Public to leave his car in the driveway and opt for mass transit.

The innovative engineers and mechanics of the Chicago Motor Coach Company, suddenly burdened with throngs of new riders, came up with the idea of the 'standing room only' bus during rush hour operations.

It was dubbed a 'stand sit' arrangement in which wooden folding chairs (much like those for a card table) replaced standard seating and when pulled up or closed created over double the rated capacity.

Seen below standing at rest somewhere in the environs of the 'Windy City' in 1942 is fleet # 705 - a 1936 36 passenger Yellow Coach modeled as a 731 and showing the unusual seating configuration.

It is unclear as to how many of the company's fleet saw this clever modification which was certainly welcomed by its riders.

Note the giant 'V' for victory (which was bright red) under the windshield.

Photo courtesy of the Motor Bus Society.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York




One correction to the above presentation;

It was the Office of Price Administration (OPA) that controlled rationing during the war and not the U.S. Department of Transportation which was only created in 1966.

Info thanks to C.E. Cox Jr. of GM Old Look

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Q65A wrote:
Please don't mention this stand-sit idea to anyone in the airline industry Smile



Bob,

Believe it or not there was an airline sometime back that had the idea of standing seats - I don't remember what company it was but just the suggestion of such an accommodation went over like a lead balloon!

Regards and Happy Fourth.

Mr. 'L'

Believe that was Ryanair, an extremely low cost Ireland based carrier...their CEO created a firestorm when he even proposed installing pay toilets on board!
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