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'GM OLD LOOK ODDITIES'
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cyberider wrote:
Ah, one of my not-so-great photos from 39 years ago. Only had a Kodak "Duaflex" box camera and some B & W film and not much sense of composure but thought I'd better get out while my favorite buses were still running. Actually, I think a few of them lasted until about 1980. Forgot about Harrington. Of course, now we have Sheriff Joe, the most famous Sheriff in the country. Laughing Laughing

Mr. Linsky wrote:





I think the following photo from Phoenix will support your point on the movement of the rear lights and why.

BTW; Harrington lost the election!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'



Dave,

I apologize (I seem to be doing that a lot lately - I think I'm getting too old for this!) for use of your photo for demonstration purposes only.

You can have it back now and I promise not to use it again without your permission.

Your good friend,

Mr. 'L'
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Free-transfer



Age: 59
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:08 pm    Post subject: 7141 Reply with quote

7141 was featured in the movie "A Bronx Tale"...shot in the 90's in Long Island City and Astoria.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Free-transfer,

You get a gold star on this one - you're right on the mark!

I've seen this bus on the movie sites but never put two and two together!

BTW; 7141 is a 4512 but could not have been an ex Santa Monica due to lack of six roof dampers.

Thanks for your help.

Photo courtesy of IMCDb,

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 497
Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Cyberider wrote:
Ah, one of my not-so-great photos from 39 years ago. Only had a Kodak "Duaflex" box camera and some B & W film and not much sense of composure but thought I'd better get out while my favorite buses were still running. Actually, I think a few of them lasted until about 1980. Forgot about Harrington. Of course, now we have Sheriff Joe, the most famous Sheriff in the country. Laughing Laughing

Mr. Linsky wrote:





I think the following photo from Phoenix will support your point on the movement of the rear lights and why.

BTW; Harrington lost the election!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'



Dave,

I apologize (I seem to be doing that a lot lately - I think I'm getting too old for this!) for use of your photo for demonstration purposes only.

You can have it back now and I promise not to use it again without your permission.

Your good friend,

Mr. 'L'


Mr. L,

No apologies necessary! You are welcome to use any of my photos whenever you want. I'm flattered that they might be useful for one of your interesting posts.

Always nice to check in with you online. I've been remiss with my lack of participation lately.

Your good friend as well,

Dave
"Cyberider"
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JimmiB



Age: 76
Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 516
Location: Lebanon, PA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of buses in movies, the movie "Rabbit Run" was filmed partially in Reading, PA.in 1970. One scene showed the lead characters boarding a bus, then an outside shot of the bus heading down the street. I guess the shot didn't work out. What you saw in the movie was an inside shot of the characters boarding the bus, a Reading Bus Co. TDH 4008, pulling out of the bus stop, then, what was probably an LA TDH 4512 painted for Reading Bus driving down a street.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes bus mechanics can become very inventive and Washington's D.C. Transit squad was no exception to the rule as can be seen in the image of one of their 1958 GM TDH 4512's below.

Of note is the add on ICC clearance bar over the ThermoMatic intake which has obviously been borrowed from a cannibalized GM New Look.

Being that the photo was snapped in 1964, it could mean that some of DC's Old Looks outlasted some of their early New Looks!

Image thanks to Bruce K. of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tapping our GM Old Look Oddities Department once more, we find what has to be the oddest bus of the lot with a history to match!

Pictured in its final configuration is fleet # 2500 - a *1948 GM/Yellow Coach Model TD 5001 operating for the Westchester Street Transportation Company division of Fifth Avenue Coach Lines, Inc. of New York.

#2500, the only one of its kind, began life as a hand made Model TD 5501 (XP-204) by GM Engineering in 1940 and was 43 foot long with a 55 passenger capacity.

GM's reasoning at the time was that the populations of major cities were increasing rapidly and that high capacity coaches would easily find a niche but they were mistaken and 2500 demonstrated around the country on and off until finally Fifth Avenue Coach bought it in 1948 after it was cut down by one window and re-modeled as a TD 5001.

Interestingly, during its tests with Fifth Avenue the seating arrangement was changed to meet New York regulations on emergency door access which then deemed # 2500 as a TD 5401.

Sometime after the 1956 takeover of Surface Transportation and its affiliates by Fifth Avenue, # 2500 found it final assignments in Westchester County where the photos were taken.

*While the bus was built in 1940, its registration reflected the sale date as 1948.

Credit within images.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York




Last edited by Mr. Linsky on Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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frankie



Age: 72
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 711
Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another bit of trivia about this bus is that in its final configuration, it's the only 40 foot GM old look without paired side windows.

Frankie
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankie,

You are correct and, in fact, the first production GM transit buses to meet or exceed forty feet in length were the paired window TDH 5502's for Chicago and the TDH 5101's for New York in 1948.

# 2500 would have made a great museum piece but rumor has it that it was destroyed in a fire sometime around 1970 although I have no substantiation of that fact.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canada is the origin of our next GM 'Old Look' oddity as we see fleet # 432 - a 1958 Model TDH 5105 and one of twenty five numbered from 409 to 433 and purchased in increments between 1955 and 1958 by the Edmonton Transit System of Edmonton, Alberta.

As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, many GM Old Looks were found to have odd rear lighting arrangements and Edmonton's 5105's were no exception.

Notice (upper photo) what appear to be two triangles of after market signals in place of the single dual purpose fixtures from the factory - it is probable that the marker, signal and stops lights have been separated which may or may not have been as a result of a change in Canadian law.

Many operators in the Canadian provinces elected to use storm windows during their cruelest winter months as can be detected by the special clips and added center supports on each set of passenger windows.

# 432 is preserved by Edmonton and, as can be seen on the large side placard, is a star participant in yearly Historic Transit Tours.

BTW; the placard under the rear deck windows is in error - the bus is a 1958 model!

Upper photo thanks to Flickr.
Lower photo credited within frame.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York


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frankie



Age: 72
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 711
Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a great looking bus Mr. L. The ETS monogram on the front and sides look like a metal cutout that were attached rather than painted on. Nice touch.

Again, thank's for my daily morning dose of bus java! I look forward to it.

Frankie
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Tapping our GM Old Look Oddities Department once more, we find what has to be the oddest bus of the lot with a history to match!

Pictured in its final configuration is fleet # 2500 - a *1948 GM/Yellow Coach Model TD 5001 operating for the Westchester Street Transportation Company division of Fifth Avenue Coach Lines, Inc. of New York.

#2500, the only one of its kind, began life as a hand made Model TD 5501 (XP-204) by GM Engineering in 1940 and was 43 foot long with a 55 passenger capacity.

GM's reasoning at the time was that the populations of major cities were increasing rapidly and that high capacity coaches would easily find a niche but they were mistaken and 2500 demonstrated around the country on and off until finally Fifth Avenue Coach bought it in 1948 after it was cut down by one window and re-modeled as a TD 5001.

Interestingly, during its tests with Fifth Avenue the seating arrangement was changed to meet New York regulations on emergency door access which then deemed # 2500 as a TD 5401.

Sometime after the 1956 takeover of Surface Transportation and its affiliates by Fifth Avenue, # 2500 found it final assignments in Westchester County where the photos were taken.

*While the bus was built in 1940, its registration reflected the sale date as 1948.

Credit within images.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York





A Post Script;

I'm delighted to say that I have won a set of eight of these Westchester Street Transportation photos of TD 5001 #2500 some more of which I would like to share with you below.

Note in the first image that # 2500 is sitting just outside a Westchester yard filled with what look like inherited Surface Transportation 'misfits'!

Does anyone in the audience know where in Westchester these photos were taken?

Enjoy!

Mr. 'L'




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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have had discussions about some GM Old Looks that came through with tinted standee or transom glasses usually ordered by southern operators in an attempt to reduce glare and summer heat.

The only such application that I had ever seen were on ten Jamaica Buses (NY) Macks that had been diverted from the canceled order of a southern Florida operator in 1950 - in this case the tint was in blue.

Thanks to Eddie's Rail Fan Page we see another such option on a 1949 GM Model TDH 4509 which was originally purchased by the San Diego Transit System of San Diego, California and later found it way to the Chicago and West Towns Railway Company's West Towns Bus Company division in Oak Park, Illinois.

You can easily tell that this was an early phase 4509 that had been built prior to a production change that added roof strengthening elements just forward of the rear and emergency doors.

This bus is preserved by Pace Suburban Bus of Arlington Heights, IL. and is featured in parades and other events.

A great interior shot!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this 1956 image taken at the corner of St. Louis and Bourbon Streets in the fabulous French Quarter of New Orleans, we see fleet number 1853 - a wide bodied 1955 GM Coach Model TDH 5105 and one of 180 numbered in the 17, 18 and 1900's delivered in increments between 1954 and 1957 to New Orleans Public Service, Inc. (NOPSI) of New Orleans, Louisiana.

# 1853's oddities include a double set of floor vents under the windshield (not uncommon among GM Old Looks operating in the humid southern tier), an unusual set of amber signals (one to either side of the destination sign) and four odd looking devices placed evenly along the lower edge of the passenger windows with purposes unknown (although they could be passenger elbows!).

It may be that this bus has taken the place of 'A Street Car Named Desire' as noted by its destination sign.

Also of note is the fact that one further 5105 arrived at NOPSI in 1958 renumbered 1967 from its original designation by GM Engineering as 'EXP 305' and was equipped with factory air conditioning.

Credit within frame.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Making its way through the downtown district of one of the many typical small cities that dot the state of New Jersey, we see fleet # L-315 - a 1957 GM Coach Model TDH 5106 and one of thirty numbered from L-300 to L-329 operating for Public Service Coordinated Transport of Newark, New Jersey.

Note the custom made Public Service cast aluminum wings and logo under the windshield in place of the usual GM marque, the custom directional signals and the aftermarket 'Michigan Markers' (unusual because most PSCT Old Looks of the ThermoMatic era generally came with factory markers).

Here's an interesting question for which I have no answer; why are there sets of after market window bars only behind the bench seats over the wheel housings?

Those of you New Jersey specialists will probably know what route # 'A' covered - the destination sign is not clear enough to read.

Photo thanks to eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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