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Where might this cafe/bus station be located?

 
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desertskies




Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:26 pm    Post subject: Where might this cafe/bus station be located? Reply with quote

I'm new here and offer humble apologies if this has been asked in the past.

At another discussion group, a member posted this approx 1940's pic, wondered where it was snapped originally. He suggested Wickenburg AZ and some (myself included) suggested it could be Superior AZ (directional sign of "Phoenix 54 miles, Los Angeles 25? miles").
To me, the mountain in the BG doesn't lend itself to Wickenburg, but lines up close to Google Earth street views of Superior (east side of town) but the directional sign points the wrong way.
I've searched bus station websites for past stations to see if it could be listed (note "Bus" signage) to no avail.

This is not a need to know but rather a curiosity.
I come here with pic in hand seeking guidance and hope to have a enjoyable time here at BusTalk.
Treat me well.

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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desertskies,

I was going to kid you with the photo below and tell you that your Howard's Cafe has been modernized but I didn't have the heart to do that to you - the Howrad's Cafe shown is 2500 miles away in Patchogue, Long Island.

I hope you find the answer to your question and I welcome you to BusTalk and look forward to your valued input and contributions (and there will be no further practical jokes!).

Best regards,

Mr. 'L'

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Free-transfer



Age: 64
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to this group!

I re-sized, inverted, embossed, sharpened and manipulated this photo (which was very blurry) to read the sign...

I think, but I'm not 100% sure...the sign is from the National Trailways System of the era.

While the top certainly says 54 miles, it almost looks like it says Phoenix, except for the last letter being a z...

The bottom looks more like 352 miles, it certainly doesn't say Los Angeles, but Ft. something...maybe Ft. Ogden, Ft. Rodgers or Ft. Collins???

I ran some numbers.........
Superior to Phoenix is 54 miles, but Superior to LA is 437 miles using the Interstate Highways of today. Using your number of 25? leaves us almost 200 miles short. If this photo was taken in Arizona, the town itself may not even exist anymore.

Do you have any more photos or input to this mystery?
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desertskies - All -

WELCOME! Nothing quite like finding a Mystery Photo! OK. With this one, yes, I like TWYS for the "BUS" sign.

In some "trials" with current Maps on YAHOO! service, I tried: Let' suppose the point shown may be WICKENBURG.
Note on the Street Sign, I think we are seeing one arrow pointing North, and the one below pointing West.

Check the Maps themselves, for siting of Routes AZ 89, USH 60 and USH 93, and other vital connecting highways. With
that, the apparent mileages shown still quite closely what we think we see. Miles work nicely if - on the long ago Street
Sign - first point PRESCOTT, and other point LOS ANGELES...

Such being the case, then we can "force" the perceived TRAILWAYS sign as displayed on SANTA FE TRAILS route. That,
in turn, agrees with known, actual SANTA FE track in place in the area. In addition, "close up" of present Wickenburg
hints the photographer took the photo, following a very short walk from the Rail Station...

That's my conjecture. Any other plausible explanations welcomed, of course...

........................Vern.................
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desertskies




Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
desertskies,

I was going to kid you with the photo below and tell you that your Howard's Cafe has been modernized but I didn't have the heart to do that to you - the Howrad's Cafe shown is 2500 miles away in Patchogue, Long Island.

Such wacky folks is the east, gotta love em! Razz
There were a number of Howard's Cafe locations in Google search and photo. I probably saw that pic in my search. Howard must be one great cook!
HwyHaulier wrote:
desertskies - All -

WELCOME! Nothing quite like finding a Mystery Photo! OK. With this one, yes, I like TWYS for the "BUS" sign.

In some "trials" with current Maps on YAHOO! service, I tried: Let' suppose the point shown may be WICKENBURG.
Note on the Street Sign, I think we are seeing one arrow pointing North, and the one below pointing West.

Check the Maps themselves, for siting of Routes AZ 89, USH 60 and USH 93, and other vital connecting highways. With
that, the apparent mileages shown still quite closely what we think we see. Miles work nicely if - on the long ago Street
Sign - first point PRESCOTT, and other point LOS ANGELES...

Such being the case, then we can "force" the perceived TRAILWAYS sign as displayed on SANTA FE TRAILS route. That,
in turn, agrees with known, actual SANTA FE track in place in the area. In addition, "close up" of present Wickenburg
hints the photographer took the photo, following a very short walk from the Rail Station...

That's my conjecture. Any other plausible explanations welcomed, of course...

........................Vern.................


Sadly, I don't have access to other photos from the time of this one.
I do like the Trailways ref and Santa Fe Trails note too.

All assistance is appreciated.
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B53RICH




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 254

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny, I've been to that Howard's Cafe in Patchogue.
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desertskies -

I think the WICKENBURG may be confirmed? Should you not have it, take the free download of GOOGLE EARTH Mapping.

Then, get into Wickenburg. There is a "flag" marking location of SANTA FE RR Station. Compare, site of your photo is a bit NE of track,
and likely a couple of city blocks SE. Without some detailed research of other sources, hard to tell how AZ-89 routed at time of photo.
"Feel your way" around, you'll get it figured...

In any case, the road (in your photo) leading off directly NW likely the old AZ-89 thru town. Note the large foothill (it is not really a
Mountain), which is beyond the NW of the town. I think I am seeing it in photo realistic scenes in GOOGLE EARTH...

Likely, we can never expect to see the old building which served as BUS STATION. Looks there have been many changes in town
over the decades. Evidently, the WICKENBURG views may lack the detailed photo coverage of myriad other points. If it is there,
I couldn't trigger it.

Look this one over, and see if it supports the conjecture about your photo...

......................Vern.....................
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Free-transfer



Age: 64
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking it just might be WICKENBURG. The mileage is about right to LA as the hand painted sign says, although I think it may say Pt. Angeles...

The lettering is so bad it's hard to tell, but...the it's either Ft. or Pt. Something.
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desertskies




Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HwyHaulier wrote:
desertskies - All -
WELCOME! Nothing quite like finding a Mystery Photo!

Yeppers there.

HwyHaulier wrote:
desertskies -

I think the WICKENBURG may be confirmed? Should you not have it, take the free download of GOOGLE EARTH Mapping.

Then, get into Wickenburg. There is a "flag" marking location of SANTA FE RR Station. Compare, site of your photo is a bit NE of track,
and likely a couple of city blocks SE. Without some detailed research of other sources, hard to tell how AZ-89 routed at time of photo.
"Feel your way" around, you'll get it figured...

In any case, the road (in your photo) leading off directly NW likely the old AZ-89 thru town. Note the large foothill (it is not really a
Mountain), which is beyond the NW of the town. I think I am seeing it in photo realistic scenes in GOOGLE EARTH...

Likely, we can never expect to see the old building which served as BUS STATION. Looks there have been many changes in town
over the decades. Evidently, the WICKENBURG views may lack the detailed photo coverage of myriad other points. If it is there,
I couldn't trigger it.

Look this one over, and see if it supports the conjecture about your photo...

......................Vern.....................

I checked with GE and as mentioned earlier, I can't get any close alignment of any foothill or mountain background in Wickenburg. Plus, GE street views doesn't cover some area of Wickenburg. Superior works nicely from Phoenix, but the mileage was in excess to L-A. I even checked Gila Bend, seeing the Phoenix/Los Angeles mileage was close, but the terrain was too flat.
It is a mystery picture, no doubt there. Almost wish I hadn't started this little journey to find its roots, but half the road trip is getting there and everyone loves a good road trip.

I appreciate the assistance here at BusTalk. If it was a Trailways shop at one time, I'm hoping a former driver or passenger of Trailways will remember this stop.
Again, this is a curiosity thing and not a need to know
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desertskies -

With GOOGLE EARTH, here's how I worked it. Note the three, target area, streets on NW - SE alignments. North Railroad St.,
Tegner, and a not named (?) Street, midway between the two named streets. Then, get to intersections with NE - SW streets,
Tegner, and/ or Apache St.

Search from a viewpoint at either: Tegner & Apache, or "not named" & Apache. Consider the current day view, outward to the
NW, from either vantage point.

With the photo you have, the background "foothill" prominent. The present GOOGLE EARTH - to my eye at least - does tend
to display comparable landscape feature, in distance, NW of Wickenburg streets. Are we seeing the same land mass in both
old and new views?

Another item which might explain some of it? We evidently have no way of knowing about the camera used in old photo.
Did it use a "normal" focal length lens? Or, did it have a "telephoto" bias? The question arises as distant land mass appears
more prominent in the old photo. Yet, something is there in the newer, GOOGLE depictions.

Finally. Also, use a SATELLITE view, which includes center of Town, and areas three miles, or so N & NW. See the SANTA FE
tracks heading West, and build in lower land immediately South of a large land mass. Compare lines of sight between there,
and Town, about 2.5 miles distant.

As I earlier noted, I have given up on any possibility the old building, with early Bus Station remains. The old photo is trying
to talk with us!...

.........................Vern................
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