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"Go The Motor Coach Way": FACC musings
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 4275
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:33 pm    Post subject: "Go The Motor Coach Way": FACC musings Reply with quote

DOUBLE DECKERS:

The famed double deckers of FACC were doomed after the War, due to a combination of declining ridership and increased labor costs. But, had FACC instead decided to continue with double decker operation, IMHO, I think that, when it came time to retire the old late 1930's YELLOWS, FACC would have had to switch over to single-deckers regardless, as I cannot see GMC building new double-deck coaches.

The ancient, charming, open-toppers, as they required both a driver and a conductor, clearly were, by this late date, simply too expensive to continue operating with their two-man crews.

Too, from the company's standpoint, they were also, quite simply, getting too long in the tooth.

I still recall, back in the 70's, when there was a less-than-successful experiment dealing with attempting to bring the double deckers back to Fifth Avenue.

Given NY's rising crime rate at that time (not to mention the ever-worsening epidemic of transit vandalism/grafitti), as well as the fuel crunch, it would have been quite foolhardy to expect that type of coach to be utilized again on the old FACC routes.

MACKS:

Being that FACC was such a GMC stronghold in the postwar years, I often wonder why the company decided to order MACKS ( C-50-DT's, dating to 1951, numbered in the 2400's).

Though there were only 25 buses in this order, I feel that this order just as easily could have been given to GMC.

FISHBOWLS:

The first Fishbowls ordered by FACC were 10 TDH-5301's, and were air-conditioned. The next order of Fishbowls (the 3100 series) were not air-conditioned.

Why were only the first order of Fishbowls equipped with a/c, and not the newer 3100's?

Appreciate any info.......

NYO

*I had mentioned that the main reason that FACC did away with double-decker operation was a combination of declining ridership and rising labor costs (this info from "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT BUSES", by Guy E. Martin); yet, the text also states that:

"......these buses (the double deckers) dominated the scene until 1953, and were only retired because none were manufactured after World War II......."

This statement seems to contradict one made earlier (from the same book):

"......after World War II, increased labor costs and declining ridership made double-decker operation unprofitable......"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:12 am; edited 3 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 4275
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some random views of what made the FACC such a fascinating operation in its day.....

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3384

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3383

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3382

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2408

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2421

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3398

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2409

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2413


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few more nostalgic glimpses from another era.....

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3385 (NOT your "typical" FACC vehicle!)

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3387

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2386
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now.....for your viewing pleasure...... Very Happy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUVMLqEQtDw

THIS IS ONE MAGNIFICENT OLD BUS!!! Very Happy Very Happy
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYO,

The only part of your interesting synopsis on Fifth Avenue Coach that I can address with any degree certainty would be the company's first order of 10 New Looks - 1960 TDH 5301's numbered 1 to 10 with Air Conditioning.

As you may know, the Omnibus Corporation (the parent of Fifth Avenue) had a very close relationship with Yellow/GM for years and, in fact, was in on much of the design work in the thirties including the Double Decked jobs for New York and Chicago and, contrary to what you state, any decision on further production of post war DD's would probably have come from Chicago and not Pontiac!

Anyway - sorry I drifted off the subject - about the A/C units; I believe they were the first long haul field tests of what was designed for the New Looks.

New York City did not require air conditioned transits until the mid sixties and that's why subsequent FACCO New Look orders did not have the feature.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr, "L":

As always, I do appreciate your taking the time to share some historical info......always GREAT:Y appreciated!

Regarding FACC coaches equipped with a/c, recall #3100 (TDH-5106), built in 1956, and purchased by FACC two years later in 1958.

Though obviously both passengers and operators certainly appreciated having a/c during those hot, sweltering, New York summers, it is obvious that no one was interested in spending money that was getting tighter on any more coaches of this type.

By this late date, FACC was only going to be in existence for four more years, before being taken over by MABSTOA in 1962.

NYO


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

#3100, air-conditioned demo that went into FACC service in 1958, preserved today by the New York City Transit Museum.

A historic, handsome coach, indeed.....

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3020

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3069
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few remaining historic coaches on public display, back in 1980.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3369
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two very old views of NEW YORK CITY OMNIBUS coaches......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1380

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1381
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

42nd St., between 5th and 6th, 1954.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3334
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"SPIRIT OF '76"......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?919
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"MABSTOA" memories......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?788

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?797

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?795

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?794
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The magnificent #3100 certainly needs no introduction......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2972

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2969
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The proud spirit of the FACC lives on.....

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3386
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Proud reminders of a fabled yesterday.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?572
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