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Classic Metal Works GM TDH-3610
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fishbowl



Age: 70
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 62
Location: Detroit

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:58 pm    Post subject: Classic Metal Works GM TDH-3610 Reply with quote

Looks like the Classic Metal Works TDH-3610's are finally out (HO and N gauge). Go get 'em!!

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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

F.B.,

On the face of it, the Classic Metal 3601 seems to be much better detailed and proportioned that Corgi's Old Looks.

Do you have pictures of the rear?

I've been to the site and can't find anything except one GM Parlor Car.

Also, is it possible that they only want $9.00 for them or is that just for a copy of the picture?

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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fishbowl



Age: 70
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 62
Location: Detroit

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, whereas (good lawyer word, huh?) the Corgi old-look rear was/is too square, it looks like the rear on this one is too sloped. Neverthless, the back windows are the correct shape (if not a little too large), which makes it somewhat more appealing (to me) than the Corgi. Price seems to be in the $20- $30 range for a single HO gauge model, depending on who's selling, and a little less for the N gauge 2-pack.



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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

F.B.,

Error, error, error!

The rear here is far superior to Corgi - hands down.

However - one glaring error; the 3610's began the era of ThermoMatic heating and ventilation and is correctly depicted on the model but no 3610 had the screened engine hatches which were eliminated on all models in late 1946 when the 3610 was introduced.

Maybe someone should point that out to Classic Metal before they go hog wild on distribution.

It's trivial and wouldn't mean much to the average collector but to us experts it's inaccurate!

Overall though, I give the model high marks.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. 'L' - All -

Noted the profile shot, too. Above the "belt line" at the rear, it is not quite the familiar "right look" to it, but
not too much of an oversight. The rear end vent screens? Alas! The maxim says, "...the die is cast...". At this
point, there would be little enthusiasm to rework the tooling, IMHO.

The new replica might invite some to work with it, and figure how to put a different destination sign in place.
The "CHICAGO LOOP" sign is more a caricature of NCL, and not operating fact. The company was more a
collection of smaller market fleets. On average, thirty to fifty coaches. To use the slogan from an insurance
company ad spot, "...so simple a caveman could do it..." as far as daily management concerned! <G>

The few, notable large metro area fleets were often simply managed, not legally controlled entities...

.....................Vern.................
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Rob




Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my typical rip, snort and bust manner (One would think patience would come with age) I tore my first of two CMW units apart and painted it. The top is Tamiya Gloss Aluminum the bottom is Haze Grey. Decals are Microscale Amtrak Superliner stripes and Condensed Roman Alphabet. After applying the individual letters for the Reading Bus Company, which is barley visible to the naked eye, I seized upon the ability to just grab the bus number from consecutive numbers that sounded good, more so than being accurate. Especially considering at this point I cannot confirm RBCo even had the 3610 model (Sorry Mr. L maybe on the next one)

On the topic of the destination sign, I also somewhat cheated in grabbing two models that said "LOCAL". Safely generic. The clear plastic has a black cover paint that apparently has the wording masked out and the an overlay of a white backing to show through that opening, all this on the inside of the clear plastic piece. It will be a challange indeed to get a proper destination for my layout, but I have considered removing the applied stripes, using white letters for my destination and then applying a black decal stripe behind that.

First I must decide if the next bus gets this same paint job or after Mr. Linsky jarred my memory of those yellow(creme) over red paint jobs of the pre BARTA era. This silver and grey does look classy and is what most of my memories involve ( I think it was a psychological block of the red and yellow!) Time will tell, the rush s over

Rob




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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob,

Paint job is great and very accurate for the RBCo. earlier livery (I like the other buses in the photo too!).

BTW; if Reading et al operated any 3610's they would have to have been used because records show no 'new' purchases.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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timecruncher



Age: 67
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1948 TDH4507's came new with the vents on the rear engine access panels. Kept 'em from overheating in Louisville's hot summers!

timecruncher
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buslist



Age: 70
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 142
Location: Lombard IL, Pueblo CO, London UK

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The new replica might invite some to work with it, and figure how to put a different destination sign in place.
The "CHICAGO LOOP" sign is more a caricature of NCL, and not operating fact. The company was more a
collection of smaller market fleets. On average, thirty to fifty coaches. To use the slogan from an insurance
company ad spot, "...so simple a caveman could do it..." as far as daily management concerned! <G>



In fact the CHICAGO LOOP DS sign could be correct. What is incorrect is that this particular model is an NCL bus. In fact it is lettered for Chicago & Calumet District Transit (known as the Shore Line from its days on Insull ownership). And although one of the Fitzgerald brothers (the principals in NCL) was a major owner, and the NCL colors were used it was in fact not part of the NCL group. C & CDT did in fact operate routes into the loop. I don't remember nor have I even seen photos of the 3610s in the loop but I have seen photos of them at 63rd and Stony (the end of the Jackson Park El) so it may have indeed happened.
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buslist



Age: 70
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 142
Location: Lombard IL, Pueblo CO, London UK

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Error, error, error!

The rear here is far superior to Corgi - hands down.

However - one glaring error; the 3610's began the era of ThermoMatic heating and ventilation and is correctly depicted on the model but no 3610 had the screened engine hatches which were eliminated on all models in late 1946 when the 3610 was introduced.

Maybe someone should point that out to Classic Metal before they go hog wild on distribution.

It's trivial and wouldn't mean much to the average collector but to us experts it's inaccurate!


I do wish people would quit repeating this myth, in fact there were plenty of thermomatic equipped old looks with the screened engine hatches. For example the following example shows CTA 6535 an 1948 4507 serial 2261 so well into production,



and this wasn't just a door swap as the CTA/CSL equipment diagrams also show this feature



And interestingly one of Southern Colorado's original 3207s still exists



This image was taken today BTW. Since this original order of 3207s came with the vents and the order was split between 3207s and 3610s it is quite probable that the 3610s were also so equipped. So a blanket statement like
Quote:
but no 3610 had the screened engine hatches
is not justified

Last edited by buslist on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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buslist



Age: 70
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 142
Location: Lombard IL, Pueblo CO, London UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:19 pm    Post subject: Thermomatic buses with engin door vents Reply with quote

And ironically this video shows a 4507 with the vents

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIl7oZNMk0E&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIl7oZNMk0E&NR=1
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buslist



Age: 70
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 142
Location: Lombard IL, Pueblo CO, London UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HwyHaulier wrote:

The few, notable large metro area fleets were often simply managed, not legally controlled entities...

.....................Vern.................

!as is often said in this group Error, error, error!

In fact NCL did have sufficient ownership in LATA, Key System, St. Louis, Baltimore and Philly to exert its control (not always majority ownership) Later as systems moved to public ownership NCL did set up a management company but I think that the above mentioned properties overshadowed the "cave man" operations on which the previous owners were unable to make a profit but NCL turned them around! Guess not just any cave man could do it!
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buslist,

I figured that I better get back in on this thing before it goes completely out of control!;

I will give you the fact that there may have been properties that, for whatever the reason, elected to have the screened engine hatches on their 4507's (I would certainly like to see a picture of the front of CTA 6535 out of curiosity though).

Actually, the basic reason for the sealed and insulated hatches that first appeared on GM 'Diesels' built from mid 1946 on was to reduce noise complaints from residents along bus routes.

So that discussion now becomes moot!

But, your spec sheet (enlarged and brightened below) does not!

This is strictly a 4506 specification as noted in the information box to the lower right of the image.

You will also note that in the list of equipment (lower left) no mention whatever is made of ThermoMatic and, in fact, the six standard roof ventilators are not only listed but are demonstrated in the schematic.

No 4506 ever had a ThermoMatic system and no bus with ThermoMatic ever had or had the need for the six exhaust vents on the roof (in other words, what you're seeing in the diagram never existed!).

Whoever drew the sheet erred in showing a ThermoMatic intake over the destination sign of a 4506!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buslist wrote:
...!as is often said in this group Error, error, error!...


Buslist -

Well, looks dramatic on screen. I have studied on N C L since, maybe, back when McKinley was President. <G>

It was a very simply, elegant game: 1) On average, served a small or medium town or city, 2) With the few large
metro properties, usually it was invited in by unhappy share holders. It did not need legal control to perform
management, and, 3) "Roger Rabbit" was no more credible than the Anti Trust actions.

On balance, I have so much time in one this one. Timing here, and I am feeling old, tired, and weary. I may add
some useful material over this weekend, or so. Then again, I may not...

I've been wanting an eager Ph. D. candidate to do an objective, business case study exercise on the entire
N C L empire. It needs a thorough and fair account...

....................Vern....................
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buslist



Age: 70
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 142
Location: Lombard IL, Pueblo CO, London UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Buslist,

I figured that I better get back in on this thing before it goes completely out of control!;

I will give you the fact that there may have been properties that, for whatever the reason, elected to have the screened engine hatches on their 4507's (I would certainly like to see a picture of the front of CTA 6535 out of curiosity though).

Actually, the basic reason for the sealed and insulated hatches that first appeared on GM 'Diesels' built from mid 1946 on was to reduce noise complaints from residents along bus routes.

So that discussion now becomes moot!

But, your spec sheet (enlarged and brightened below) does not!

This is strictly a 4506 specification as noted in the information box to the lower right of the image.

You will also note that in the list of equipment (lower left) no mention whatever is made of ThermoMatic and, in fact, the six standard roof ventilators are not only listed but are demonstrated in the schematic.

No 4506 ever had a ThermoMatic system and no bus with ThermoMatic ever had or had the need for the six exhaust vents on the roof (in other words, what you're seeing in the diagram never existed!).

Whoever drew the sheet erred in showing a ThermoMatic intake over the destination sign of a 4506!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'



So you are just plain wrong get over it!
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