BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

Seen in Portsmouth, Virginia in March of 1976 is fleet number 10 - a 1951 GM Model TDH 4509 and one of 12 (1 to 12) operating for the Elizabeth River Tunnel Commission as a tunnel shuttle service between downtown Norfolk and downtown Portsmouth.

As later phase 4509's, ERTC's buses featured a strengthening of the roofs amidships as can be noted by the narrower single passenger window forward of the rear door (a modification brought about by a weakness discovered in New York City's large fleet of 4510's from 1949).

Further mid production improvements included updated directional signals and the larger 'GM' logo under the windshield.

To accommodate the rush hour crowds ERTC ordered their coaches with single seats on left side of the aisle.

The 4509's, and five later 4512's, where maintained by the Virginia Transit Company who provided drivers and ran the service for 25 years until Hampton Roads Transit took over the route and retired the Old Look fleet.

Photo and info thanks to eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[timecruncher]

I was thinking that the color scheme looked awfully ATE-ish! Virginia Transit Company, which operated in Richmond and other Virginia cities, was part of that once-great company, all of whose satellite operations got the green/silver paint scheme first used in northern Kentucky at Cincinnati, Newport & Covington Street Railway.

And of course, Citizens Rapid Transit in Norfolk was a very loyal [anti-GM] Mack operator, who went on to have a fairly sizeable fleet of very early new-look Flxibles rather than do bidness with Generous Motors!

timecruncher

Looks as if the poor bus was lettered with a magic marker...

[Mr. Linsky]

T.C.,

You're the second one in as many days who has mentioned 'ATE' in connection with my Tunnel Bus piece.

Question (and forgive my ignorance); what exactly was or is ATE?

Assumptions have been made that the Tunnel Bus was part of a much larger 'National City Line' type of operation because of a familiar livery.

I can't dispute that because I'm not familiar ERTC's modus operandi except to say that, according to OMT, the commission purchased the buses new and contracted Virginia Transit to run the route.

I will certainly agree that the paint job is nothing to write home about!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[HwyHaulier]

Mr 'L' - timecruncher - All -

American Transportation Enterprises. Based at Cincinnati, IIRC.

In my recall, A T E also involved with the Harrisburg, PA operator, among others. Perhaps someone
has done the homework, and there might be some more info on the 'net.

.....................Vern..................

[Mr. Linsky]

[HwyHaulier]

Mr 'L' -

Hmmm... Thanks! Glad I was of some help. Feel like the old coot on the porch at the town General Store.
At least I'll give some helpful directions, tho I'm not about to take you there myself! <G>
(Might have to get off the porch!)

.......................Vern....................

[timecruncher]

ATE was a 'consolidator' like National City Lines. They branched out from the CN&C operation in northern Kentucky to acquire many Virginia properties, Harrisburg Railways (as mentioned above by Hwy Hauler), Nashville Transit, Southern Coach Lines (Chattanooga, TN) and other greater and lesser properties here and there.

As public ownership occurred, often times they would get the managment contract and continued to operate the public transit authority. In the early years, aside from TANK in northern Kentucky, they managed TARC here in Louisville, Queen City Metro in Cincinnati, Bi-State in St. Louis, RTD in Denver, MTC up in the Twin Cities, Indianapolis Metro, MTA in Nashville and CARTA in Chattanooga (naturally), and pretty much all of those Virginia and Pennsylvania properties that they had owned privately.

ATE branched out into international transit management with the big Saudi Arabian contract -- they're the ones responsible for all of those MC5C's with two doors, extra heavy-duty a/c that came back to the US after 7 or 8 years in the deserts of north Africa and became commonplace on airport shuttles and smaller charter outfits.

They were bought out by Ryder Truck Rental/RTL in the late eighties, branched out into school bus contracting, and continued to grow.

As an employee at two former ATE properties, I can tell you as well that they were not a friend of labor. Most of their management contracts were rife with union troubles - not so much because of contract differences, but because so many of their upper managers knew nothing about the business they were managing. Few of their top people ever sat in the driver's seat, and most were unseen on the properties they managed (but often seen at the golf course while problems continued at those properties).

In more recent years, ATE spun off Ryder, kept the school bus operation and was in turn bought out by First Group of Scotland. They purchased Laidlaw, getting Greyhound in the process, and are now one of the largest operators of intercity buses on the globe.

They still do transit management, their notable properties at this time being in Reno and El Paso. They operate some smaller systems, some university shuttle services and probably some contract operations here and there. They still have a large presence in Paratransit operations, but they do not have nearly as many large systems as they once had.

And as a footnote, First Group just lost the original ATE property, TANK in northern Kentucky. Their manager was one of the inexperienced people who seem to gravitate to their management ranks. Coming from a small city college bus system, she simply could not make the transition from a non-union workforce with no rules to a union property with some structure to its service. I won't go into detail here, but while she seemed a decent enough person, she was out of her comfort zone operating TANK.



timecruncher

[HwyHaulier]

timecruncher -

Many Thanks! Some very solid detail! You worked for them; I didn't. It is not at all difficult to make decisions to bail
from larger urban transit operations. Most, if not all, subject to the, "Too Many Cooks" maxim. Result? No one is
ever pleased.

Hadn't heard the reports of the actual labor environment in play. It simply does not work! I have seen my share of
morons and otherwise addled trying to do it in trucking. Doesn't work there, either...

....................Vern....................

[timecruncher]

Well, to be fair, I have known some transit managers who took the time to get to know their business from the ground up.

TANK's long-time previous GM, whose father was involved in transit during pre-public ownership days, would hop in the driver's seat if need be, and it wasn't unusual during bad weather to see him working a wildcat or pulling a tripper when there simply weren't enough drivers to do the work.

The important part of managing a transit system, big or small, is for the top guy to be seen on the property and for him/her to take time to listen to employees. Sure, you must bring your bullshit detector with you, but with a little care you can pick up on potential problems or issues that may come back to bite you in the future. If you take the time to be part of the team rather than just being in the manager's office, you certainly will end up with a more satisfied workforce!

Most transit managers, alas, just won't do the legwork. Spending a Saturday morning in the dispatch office would interrupt golf or boating, and might get in the way of other plans.

It would do well for high level transit managers to remember that they are working in a 24-hour a day business (even if the buses are off the street for a few hours every night) and to build their work schedule accordingly.

timecruncher