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'RUSSIAN 'OLD LOOKS' IN ACTION'

 
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:45 am    Post subject: 'RUSSIAN 'OLD LOOKS' IN ACTION' Reply with quote

We've talked of the Russian imitation GM Old Looks that appeared soon after the Second World war on Moscow's streets but we had never seen them in action.

Here, in a scene that dates from the late forties/early fifties, we see a handful in revenue or 'ruble' service presumably downtown along with a number of trolley buses that bear some resemblance to Marmon-Herringtons.

The story goes that many genuine GM Old Looks were left in Europe by the military at the end of the war merely because it would have been impractical to ship them back to the states.

The Russians obviously got hold of a couple and proceeded to manufacture over 1100 of them with Diesel electric power plants.

Notice the Michigan Markers and the pre ThermoMatic roof vents added for affect.

BTW; that's an imitation 48 Cadillac in right center of frame.

Also attached is a color close up of their Old Look version being shown at what might be their idea of a 'bus fest'!

Enjoy,

Photos borrowed for educational purposes.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York


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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr 'L' -

The Russkies just loved our stuff. Various engineering design departments must have had share of lazy folks on the clock.
There was much, when in doubt, get an American design...

Rather odd the GMC appeared as a Diesel-Electric in Russian service. We must have sent some of the US build into Europe
during the War? The timeline reports YELLOW COACH/ GMC familiar with the technology. Once it had its own DETROIT DIESEL
power plants, the "D/E" became needless?

...................Vern....................
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ripta42
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Age: 44
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 1035
Location: Pawtucket, RI / Woburn, MA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bus pictured in the color photo is a ZiS-154. It was produced under license from GM, not stolen technology, from 1946 to 1949. Would you believe it's even a diesel-electric hybrid! It was replaced by the similar-looking, though slightly different and gasoline-powered, ZiS-155, produced from 1949 to 1957 (as the ZiL-155 in the last two years, the company's name having changed in 1956 upon the death of the S in ZiS, Stalin):



Based on the squared-off windshields and extra grillework on the fronts, the buses in the black and white photo appear to be 155s.

The license expired, and the successor to the Zil-155 was the Zil-127:



Interestingly, the GM 4-71 and 6-71 engines are (as of 2006, at least) still produced under license in Russia.
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Heavens! The ZiL-127 has a resemblance to an EAGLE!

The older GMC replicas. Interesting how they played around with the axle spacing, so as to deal with door location...

The reference to the licensing agreement may be one of the few cases where it ever made such payments. They always
swore, under oath as needed, it was all original work...

.......................Vern....................
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my question;

Wouldn't it have been more practical for them to just import the real thing in exchange for a few thousand cases of Stolie?

In my 'From Russia with Love' thread elsewhere on this site, I mention that they originally used a four cylinder two banger of their own making.

It wouldn't surprise me though that the electric motors were copies of either GE or Westinghouse design.

It was an era of aping and the Japanese were very good at it - in fact, they were so good that a lot of their stuff (ie; cameras) came out better than the originals!

Still the case today - at least with cameras.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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fishbowl



Age: 76
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 62
Location: Detroit

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pointless observation: Interesting (to me, anyway) that the 154 kept the cutout on the passenger side front window, even tho the doors opened out. I could be wrong, but I believe that cutout was there to give clearance for doors that opened in. (Now that I think of it, the same pointless observation applies to the double-stream doors on the NYC TDH-5101 and Chicago TDH-5502.)

By the way, I just bought a ZIS-154 model made in the Ukraine. Wonderful likeness, tho the rear windows/proportions aren't exactly perfect. Seems that old-look rear ends give modelers fits! (I think in particular of the Victory Models TDH-3605 from 1995.)


the rear end that gives modelers fits


a ZIS-154 all decked out (and restored) for a bus festival


a 154 illustration in blue
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishbowl -

This only your second message up? WELCOME...

Oh, indeed! The Russkies just loved our stuff! They couldn't get their hands
on enough of it. Did a credible job with knockoff of the Boeing B-29!

......................Vern.........................
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

F.B.,

Sorry that I didn't also welcome you aboard and say that we certainly look forward to what seems to be your very educated observations.

I would have to agree with you concerning the modelers; I have a Corgi Green Bus Lines 1949 TDH 4507 that also has the rear end out of proportion.

I don't know much at all about making models but it seems to me that if they can get the fronts and sides right, why not the backs?

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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fishbowl



Age: 76
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 62
Location: Detroit

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
I would have to agree with you concerning the modelers; I have a Corgi Green Bus Lines 1949 TDH 4507 that also has the rear end out of proportion.

Thanks HH and Mr. L for your kind welcomes. Glad to be here. You know how there are places that immediately feel familiar even tho you haven't been there before? This is one of them for me!

Not to get too off topic (ZIS models), but I've just got to show what Victory Models did to the rear end of their TDH-3605. Hideous... bulbous... especially when you consider how accurate the front and sides are.


Nice front.


Not-so-nice rear; the roofline actually rises toward the rear of the bus! What's that all about?

As for Corgi, I've been ranting about the rear end of their old look for years! Way too squared off on top. Distorts everything! (I even sent a letter-to-the-editor about it to the UK's Model Auto Review magazine, which was published. But to no avail. By then, the die, as they say, was cast.)
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

F.B.,

Nice Avatar!

I take back everything I said about the rear ends of Corgi's 4507's which don't look too bad when compared to your NJPS A901.

It looks as though they accidentally copied the rear of a Crown School Bus - what were they thinking?

I don't blame you for being irate!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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RailBus63
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 1063

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishbowl wrote:
As for Corgi, I've been ranting about the rear end of their old look for years! Way too squared off on top. Distorts everything! (I even sent a letter-to-the-editor about it to the UK's Model Auto Review magazine, which was published. But to no avail. By then, the die, as they say, was cast.)


I don’t own any of the Corgi fishbowl models, but from the ones I’ve seen, the air-conditioning housing just doesn’t look right – it looks like it’s too big or something. The back of the non-AC buses looks right. Also, the front looks a little bit off as well, almost like it’s squished together (might be that the metal rims around the headlights are too big?).
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