BusTalk

Cdntruckphotog

The discussion about how the post war coach building programme from many American railroads was no longer germain to the thread where it was found.
Soooo..........since I am a Moderator/Admin guy on another list I should be sensitive to that and not practice "Thread Hi-Jacking".
Vern (Hwyhaulier) and Mr Linsky were discussing some of those coaches built by BUDD.
VIA Rail still run some of these on what they call The Corridor, which stretches from Windsor, Sarnia and Niagara Falls through Toronto to Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec City.
I posted a picture of coach 4112 that I shot on 09/27/09 passing through Port Credit 13 miles west of Toronto.
http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/55/855/8/73/13/2063873130104924977CNrXKf_th.jpg
This morning I would like to post another from VIA's 1990's rebuild programme. This is of L&N heritage.
CLUB- GALLERY 4003 now has 56 seats.
It was built in 1949 by Budd/AMF
It arrived at VIA as follows:
ex: RAIL/SEA CRUISES 6068 (19?? - 90)
exx: INDIANA HI RAIL (1984 - 19??)
exxx:AMTK 6068 ( 1974 - 1984)
exxxx: AMTK 5214 (1971 - 1974)
nee L&N 3241 (1949 - 1971)
Possibly you gentlemen might have ridden in L&N 3241 or AMTK 5214/6068 . I invite you to come to Toronto and take the train to Niagara Falls or Windsor and experience these coaches still riding the rails and racking up revenue miles.

Picture taken by Rob Archer in Niagara Falls Ontario December 5 2005.
I must point out that this particular train only had the SS club car in the consist; the balance were VIA's LRC (light rapid comfortable) cars.

HwyHaulier · Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD

Cdntruckphotog -

Well, good move. Especially as the lead topic had things to do with vehicles flying thru the air. Can't be too careful. I wouldn't want
important politicos to pay much attention to the dreaded malady of "Topic Drift"! By the time they would get thru with it, what kind
of new taxes needed?

Meanwhile, yes, I did dig out a JAN 1954, Passenger Equipment Register. It reports:

SOU 952 (VIA 4112). Shown as AAR Desig. PBC, Parlor Coach. In service as a forty-six (46) seat car. Register does not note which of
five different road name possibilities displayed in service.

L&N 3241 (VIA 4003). Shown as AAR Desig. PB, Coach? This one a mystery. There is no 3241 in the 1954 publication. There is a gap
in "3200" class number series. For a fact, I don't know what this might have been, delivered as possibly fifty-six (56) seats? Perhaps
an error in bringing forward original line number? Or, it was renumbered by L&N?

So, perhaps L&N 3214? That doesn't work. It had a 3214, but in a sixty (60) seat small group of "All Aluminum" coaches, with earlier
markings of L&N - NC&StL...

Sidenote: I remain perplexed by label of "Budd/AMF" in captions. AMF built bowling alleys, and a bunch of other stuff, right? Budd
evidently independent, up until 1978, when control passed to Thyssen. See this (loving) account from a Philly Phoamer in Wikipedia.
I could care about Philly subway cars. Importance blown up way out of proportion, for my tastes. The account misses the real meat
of all of it, IMHO. Whither the RDC? The entire CB&Q Zephyr system?..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_Company

..................Vern................

Cdntruckphotog · Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:42 am Post subject:

The BUDD/AMF as builder is from the listing in the CANADIAN TRACKSIDE GUIDE. I'm sorry, but I haven't been able to keep up with the various builders South of The Border.

HwyHaulier · Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD

timecruncher · Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:43 am Post subject:

Ya know, I rode L&N passenger trains all of my life, mostly during the first three years attending Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green, KY, and I don't recognize the car at all.

L&N's stainless steel cars were mostly built for the Crescent Limited pool, operating on that train between New York, Washington, D.C. and New Orleans. The cars were built to match Southern Railway specs. There also was one stainless observation-lounge-sleeper Royal Street that probably was also built for Crescent Limited service, but spent most of the sixties running overnight between Jacksonville and New Orleans on L&N's Gulf Wind. That car exists today as a PV and is seen all over the country on charter movements.

Then there were the two diner-lounges that L&N acquired in the early sixties from Maine Central. These were remodeled into the counter-lounge diners Dixie Traveler and Dixie Journey. I was most familiar with these two cars because I ate lunch and enjoyed a cold brewski in them when riding the Pan American home on weekends from college.

At any rate, I have ridden on VIA's corridor a few times, mostly in LRC equipment, but the last time enjoyed the Budd consist and might have been riding in a long-lost ex-L&N coach...

A little bit of the Bluegrass State up in Ontario, eh?

timecruncher

HwyHaulier · Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD

timecruncher -

From a Moldy, Oldie timetable. Might I suggest any of the Royal cars were for originally intended for service on the Midwest - Florida
through trains? South of CIN, handled CNO&TP (SRS) - SOU - SRS (G&F) to Jacksonville?

Beats me about the L&N car we have in play here. I can't figure it from the 1954 publication. Also, just checked 1962 publication.
No clue about L&N 3241...

...................Vern.....................

Cdntruckphotog · Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: AMF Technotransport

Vern: AMF Technotransport in Montreal.
**source** Canadian Trackside Guide 1996 edition.
(Note- from the introduction to the '96 Guide.
Another pending transaction is the privatization of AMF Technotransport Inc., the locomotive repair and rebuilding shop operated by Canadian National in Montreal. It's sale to the Franco- British giant GEC-Alsthom should be finalized early in 1996)

HOWEVER...undoubtedly the Trackside Guide folks transcribe better than I
( this is a mea culpa, ain't it? Embarassed

) try L&N 3251

Budd built 'em.
AMF Technotransport rebuilt 'em to VIA specs.
I know they run them to and from London Ontario in what is essentially commuter service that extends beyond GO's area. It looks to me like they might run them to Sarnia as well.

Part of the mystery is solved.

HwyHaulier · Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD

timecruncher · Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject:

Royal Street may then have been built for the Dixie Flagler, the every-third-day Chicago - Florida streamliner (part of the South Wind, City of Miami group of trains that provided daily service when combined between Lake Michigan and all of Florida back in the late forties and early fifties.

Makes sense, I guess. The car does not look like it is of Southern Railway design. The City of Miami was an Illinois Central train, coaches and Pullmans, all matching in brown and orange, the South Wind was a Pennsy train, all-coach and stainless steel throughout, and the Dixie Flagler was a C&EI/L&N train, all stainless steel with coaches and Pullmans.

Somewhere during the mid-fifties the 'Flagler was discontinued, and the other two trains became every-other-day trains with both coach and Pullman accomodations. Growing up in Louisville, I saw the South Wind regularly, and up until the mid-sixties would run up to 20 cars routinely during the Winter months, with a leased Northern Pacific dome-sleeper in the consist.

I have a photo of Royal Street that I'll try to upload tonight when I get home. She spent her final years before Amtrak parked at Union Station just outside of my office here.

Ahh, here we go:

The tailsign reads "Florida Special," indicating that it might have been part of that storied seasonal train between New York and Miami up until A-day in 1971.

timecruncher

HwyHaulier · Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD

timecruncher -

So what do you make of SRS trains to/from CIN and Florida? Royal Palm and Ponce de Leon come to mind...

The trains you noted ran south of CIN via L&N, not CNO&TP (SRS)...

Beats me! Guess I shudda' rode the trains at CIN, back when I had a SRS pass?

......................Vern.................

timecruncher · Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject:

Dunno.

Off topic, but by the time I was old enough to ride the trains by myself, both the Palm and the Ponce were but coach-only trains with few riders.

Southern discontinued the Ponce south of Atlanta, then the Palm south of the Georgia state line shortly after. Then the Ponce came off the rest of the way from Cincinnati to Atlanta, but the Carolina Special continued for a while longer from Cincinnati to Columbia. By that time Southern figured out that they could discontinue trains one state at a time and not have to deal with the ICC, and they pursued that tack to get rid of the Royal Palm, Tennessean, Augusta Special and eventually The Pelican. At the end, the Royal Palm had stubs running Cincinnati - Somerset (KY) and Rome (GA) to Atlanta. Kentucky and Georgia allowed them to drop the isolated runs easily and voila! No more passenger trains to fool with.

L&N was more traditional in that they appealed to the ICC to drop entire trains all at once. They got permission to drop The Humming Bird after several injunctions and delays on a sunny afternoon in 1967 IIRC, and annulled the train, public be damned, in Montgomery, AL. Passengers were bussed (a few hours later) to gulf coast points and the train was gone. It made national headlines.

The Georgian between Chicago and Atlanta was a bit different. The C&EI was given permission by the ICC to drop the Chicago - Evansville portion, but L&N was stuck with their St. Louis - Atlanta train (coaches only, although the train had a coach with galley and hot/cold drinks, snacks and sandwiches until the train was discontinued on A-day. The food service was never noted in the timetable or in the Official Guide.

timecruncher
Yeah, nothing to do with buses, but ah likes my passenger trains, too!

Note: I tried to upload a photo, but it won't take for some reason. Bah!

HwyHaulier · Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD

timecruncher -

Thanks! SRS could be shrewd and cagey in how it did things. It had a lot experience at it, fighting the battles with the ICC. Recall, it
had a Washington, DC General Offices presence until a while after merger with N&W. So, they knew the "K Street" and "Connecticut
Avenue" crowd at least as well as anyone else, if not much better...

..................Vern..............