BusTalk

[Dieseljim]

The Capital Airlines'Vickers Viscounts, as were those of Continental Airlines, were a smaller, less powerful turboprop than the Lockheed Electras, which went to American, Braniff, Eastern, Northwestern, and PSA in this country, Quantas in Australia, and KLM in Europe, to name a few. When Capital was merged into United in1960-61, the entire fleet of Viscounts were retained by United and flown by them for about 10 more years. The Viscount was NOT as fast as the Electra in cruise and of the two aircraft, the Electra was more jetlike in performance than the Viscount. The US Navy, after leasing several Electras, liked the design so much that they ordered an antisubmarine adaptation called the P3 Orion, which is now in its 47th year of service with the Navy, and the last of which was delivered in1991. Viscounts had Rolls Royce Dart turboprops,which had less than half the power of the Electra's Allisons. Back in the 90s on a record breaking flight half way around the world, a US Navy P3 Orion averaged 540 mph, which is very fast for a prop jet and a straightwinged one, no less. It had the most powerful T56 series turboprop engines available at that time. Early P3s had water injection on the early engines, which were nearly the same as the Electras. As for the Viscounts, the last ones were built in 1964. Very few of either type are still flying today. Most Electras still flying are cargoliners, a few are used as air tankers for fighting wildfires, and the rest, as they say, is history.

[Cdntruckphotog]

I believe that Trans Canada Airlines flew Viscounts.
I seem to recall a "flight over Toronto" while I was a Boy Cub in the early 1960's in a Viscount Vanguard.
Trans Canada Airlines was the precursor to Air Canada.

[Dieseljim]

Trans Canada did indeed fly both Viscounts and the larger Vanguard which was powered by the more powerful Rolls Royce Tyne turboprops. The Vanguard was roughly the size of an Electra if not a bit larger.

[Mr. Linsky]

Yes, I forgot one important thing in my description of the Vickers Vicounts that I flew to Detroit and back in;

I sat just at a seat where I could clearly see the familiar Rolls Royce logos on the engine cowlings.

I remember thinking that if Rolls Royce made the engines, we were pretty safe!

BTW; It could be me sitting in the plane below waiting for take off at La Guardia!

Mr. 'L'

[Dieseljim]

In fact, the Rolls Royce Aero engine division IS still in business. Not only that, but I am sure you would be surprised at how many airplances powered with Rolls Royce Darts are still flying today. Once, a tanker out fit even fitted a B17 with four of the engines and flew it in that form until the aircraft was destroyed in an accident. I bet the Darts goosed up the B17s performance a great deal. At the time a number of B17s were used as firefighting air tankers..

[timecruncher]

Ahh, the Lockheed Electra. Trial-and-error aircraft if there ever were any!

While attending Western Kentucky University, I normally used the L&N's Pan American when "suitcasing" back to Louisville for a weekend. It was cheap and far more comfortable than Greyhound (and this was before I-65 was complete across the state, so the first 30 miles north was on US31W!). I had to stand more than once on Greyhound -- not fun even on a Scenicruiser, I'm afraid. At least they didn't leave you behind back then if there wasn't a seat.

On a couple of occasions, just for s**ts and grins, I used the one commercial flight through Bowling Green. Eastern ran it, and by 1969 it was one of only two or three flights left in their schedule that used the workhorse Electras. This flight did a daily round-trip from Atlanta - Rome (GA) - Nashville - Bowling Green - Louisville - Chicago. So help me! Probably had to replace the tires every evening when it got back to O'Hare...

Anyway, the flight went north around 3:00pm, and it took every inch of the Warren County Airport's main runway to set the thing down. When taking off, the pilot would taxi to the berm at the end of the runway, throttle up and "launch" us down the runway in order to have a few hundred feet of asphalt left when liftoff occurred.

The airport was a 75-cent ride in a cab from the dorm, and here is the massive terminal (that's my college roommate standing in front of the flagpole). Check out the Hertz fleet out front:



The plane arrived a couple of hours late this date, I could have beat it on the train for $6.00 less this time, but this was a classy ride:



Hell yes -- we boarded from a push-stairway. They only shut down the two starboard engines so we could get on board. As soon as the three or four of us boarded, they closed the door and taxied away!

It was a hoot, but I liked the 'Pan better.

timecruncher

[timecruncher]

[Mr. Linsky]

My first trip to California was in 1959 on a TWA Lockheed Constellation which took 16 hours with stops in Pittsburgh, Chicago and Las Vegas.

It was an overnight flight and I never got up out of the seat once.

I do remember that it was freezing cold and there weren't enough blankets to go around, and that we landed in almost blizzard conditions in Chicago.

I had planned to stay a week but sickness in the family forced me to return to New York as quickly as possible on one of the first TWA Boeing 707's - that was the thrill of a lifetime!

Photos borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. 'L'


The Lockheed Constellation "Star of America" visits New York's JFK International Airport for the 75th anniversary of TWA, in June 2000.

[timecruncher]

A TWA Constellation brought my mother over here from France in 1946 with stops at Shannon and (I'd guess) Halifax for refueling. Probably took 14 hours or more.

They got to New York Idlewild and found the railroads to be on strike, and ended up riding Greyhound to Louisville.

The timecruncher popped out four years later and the rest, as we say, is history!

Her first visit back home wasn't until 1969, when they flew again on TWA, in B747-200 aircraft from Kennedy in just over six hours! The first time I visited her homeland was in 1991 at age 40 after my father passed. This time it was a nonstop from Cincinnati in a B767-400.

Bottom line: Love to travel. I prefer the train, will tolerate flying. Can't afford a whole lot of either, but do it when I can.

timecruncher

[roymanning2000]

Timecruncher and Others,

You're probably already aware of this website but, if not, here's a link to the L&N Passenger Trains page on the Memphis Historical Railroad Pages website. Several pictures here of the L&N's Bowling Green-Memphis connection for the Pan American.

http://condrenrails.com/MRP/MemphisUnionStation/L&N-Memphis-Pass-Pixs.htm

One morning back in 1968, I took the Pan down to Louisville from Cincinnati. My seat was in one of those rebuilt heavyweight coaches. May have been the best ride I ever had on a train. Didn't have the money to eat in the diner but, did get a great cup of coffee from cart they rolled through the coach.

The thing that really stands out in my memory about that trip was the last few miles into Union Station in Louisville. We stopped at a junction on the outskirts of town and backed in to the station. That train was zipping right along going backwards. I rode Penn Central trains back in those days that couldn't attain those speeds going forward!

Roy

[timecruncher]

Trains to and from the "shortline" to Cincinnati diverged just south of Hill Street onto tracks in the middle of Gaulbert Street, pulling south at the wye at A Street Tower to back into Union Station.

This is a section of town known as "Old Louisville," and I can only imagine how the residents would howl today if a half-dozen passenger trains were using their street every day! Northbound trains would pull around the wye, stop and back through the north leg onto the main line and back the mile or so to Union Station.

The shots of 106 and 109 at Memphis Union Station from the web link you gave us is interesting. The L&N trains to Memphis never were much, but I did notice in once shot that the Kentucky Railway Museum's 10 section-solarium lounge Mt. Broderick was on the back of the train getting ready to head back north. It was painted "interurban orange" with a maroon letterboard band. The car had a 15-seat lounge and a small galley in the rear with windows (but no platform) on the rear bulkhead. She rode like the proverbial Cadillac that she was, even on L&N's marginal track! The car is still around, languishing down at the KRM site in New Haven, KY. Alas, she has friction bearing trucks, and is not Amtrak-ready. I doubt the car will ever roll again on the high iron.

As a young member of KRM in the mid and late-sixties, I took a couple of the charter trips on this car. We younguns had to take upper berths, and generally had to make up our own berth and then listen to all of the old farts snoring all night long.

'Course, now I'm one of the old farts...

If I can get them to post, I'll add a photo or two when I get home this evening.

timecruncher

[HwyHaulier]

[Cdntruckphotog]

Vern: what did VIA buy to rebuild?
I shot one on Friday evening, on Train 83 Toronto to London ON, VIA4112.
(picture later)
I show this as ex AMTRAK 3852, nee SOU952 built by Budd in 1949.
Is this what you were refering to?
From what I can tell; all the CN and CP heavyweights are no longer in service on VIA.

Rob

[HwyHaulier]

Rob -

Even without seeing it, SOU 952 likely came in on a postwar, equipment replacement and upgrade of several trains, including Southerner and Tennessean.
Some of its equipment, in same era, also supplied by Pullman Standard, IIRC.

IMHO, same era Budd against P-S, the latter delivered a better ride. The designers evidently had a better mastery of ride control. Not that it wasn't beset
with its own problems. P-S used sheet steel, Budd worked with stainless. P-S cars needed more, and continuing, "cosmetic" work...

....................Vern...................

[timecruncher]

I agree about Pullman-Standard vs Budd. The Pullman cars were quieter all around. L&N, thrifty (not cheap) to the core, bought ACF cars for the Georgian and Humming Bird, and those cars, while attractive enough, were rattletraps after a few years of banging around on L&N's rough track.

Plus, they were fugly. Those ACF full lounges had a galley and dorm area, and the lounge section was a glassed-in area with magazines, usually an old copy of the Official Guide and this big cast Pyle-National brakewheel on the bulkhead. The cars bounced all over the place. Maybe that was by design so that if you spilled enough of your drink, you'd buy another one!

Budd rules with contemporary equipment. Today's Amtrak Amfleet coaches and cafes are now older than most of the "heritage" equipment the carrier inherited back in 1971, and after overhaul, they are quiet, good-riding, solid cars. Yeah, they look goofy with the original Metroliner design, but they are serving the purpose very well.

Too bad Budd is no longer with us to bid on the next generation of US intercity rail passenger equipment, but Pullman is gone too.

Can you say Bombardier? Alstom? Kinkysharo? Sure you can! I knew you could!

timecruncher