BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Years ago, while browsing through a book on the 1963 assasination of President John F. Kennedy, there was a pic of a Dallas White, that featured a boxy, roof-mounted a/c unit, similiar to those used on the earliest GM Old Looks. Were Dallas' Whites the only Whites that were a/c'd, or did other "warm climate" cities roster any as well? It would seem that a/c'd Whites weren't all that plentiful years ago. Appreciate any info..... John

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

If a/c'd Whites were a RARE breed, than a/c'd ACF-Brill transit/suburbans would have had to have been AS rare, if not even rarer. The only a/c'd ACF-Brill coaches I know of were the IC-41's

[Mr. Linsky]

NYO,

It's doubtful that ACF or White ever had 'factory' air conditioning on there transit models - GM only started experimenting (in transit) in 1956 (see Fifth Avenue # 3200 in lowest panel).

It is probable that what you saw were 'Thermo-King' units that were an after market option that some companies installed, and were generally done so by operators in warmer climates - Phoenix as a good example (see top two photos).

The rear unit was large and appeared to be much like a window air conditioner with some having a duct that ran the full length of the roof.

The fact of the matter was that these units kept the buses so cold that some drivers used to come to work with winter coats in the middle of the summer.

Pictures used for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Mr. Linsky: Yet again, your seemingly endless photo archives have truly left me marveled! These buses are, in one word, "WOW!!" The a/c Mack truly has me floored!!

NEVER before have I EVER seen a Mack transit with a/c!! NEVER knew any existed!! What company rostered it?

Again, thank you for sharing these WONDERFUL, NOSTALGIC images of the classic buses we all knew and loved so long ago!! John

[roymanning2000]

In addition to the Whites, Dallas also had Southerns with air-conditioning. Don't know whether that was factory-installed or not but, I doubt it. The photos that I've seen look like the Thermo-King units added by other properties.

I also seem to recall that some of their trolley coaches may have had air. Never have seen a pic of one, though. If that's true, that had to be an after-market installation.

Roy

[Hart Bus]

WCA: I have seen that picture of #3200 which was taken at Columbus Circle. I am of the belief that 3200 was a demonstrator. If you look closely there is no FACC lettering on the bus and the 3200 signs seem to be on boards that were attached either by hooks or bolts and could be easily removed. The first operating a/c (non-demo) for FACC was # 3100 which is preserved today in the NYC Transit Museums' historical fleet as NYCTA # 3100.

ECA

[Mr. Linsky]

NYO et al

This has to be a first!

Pictured below (top) is a 1947 Mack Model C45GT (Gas Transit) operating for Citizen's Rapid Transit Company of Hampton, Virginia in a photo taken in June of 1974.

Of note, of course, is the after market air conditioning system that CRTC installed on this bus and one other C45GT (lower photo) for use in interurban service.

The first Mack (top) was an ex St. Louis Public Service and one of 100 delivered numbered in the 4000's in May of 1947.

The second bus below of the same vintage, which affords a better view of the rear A/C equipment, is said to have come from Little Rock, Arkansas but I find no further information on it.

These are certainly a pair of rare Macks to say the least!

Photos courtesy of Citizen's Rapid Transit archives.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Mr. "L": Yet ANOTHER photo of an air-conditioned Mack!! WOW!! Talk about a RARE bird!! Judging by the autos in the one pic, it's obvious that the Macks were no longer "spring chickens" when these shots were snapped! Man, I'd have given ANYTHING if the old Hudson Boulevard Macks (or those rostered by the Orange & Black) had those a/c units on the roof!! Thanks again for sharing these rare shots!! John

[jathomps68]

horrible service

dont use them they r very unprofessional and their techs have no clue on how to work on a AC at least the one that came hear didnt if u go with them u will not be satisfied all you,ll get is more headache than its worth then youll need someone else to fix what they messed up save yourself the trouble and look elsewhere

[timecruncher]

The Hudson 3301 was probably delivered with a/c, as these were built far into the new look era and a/c was an available option from the factory.

The Fifth Avenue Coach Lines 5105 is an ex-DC Transit unit that was delivered with factory a/c in 1958 -- the only ones (that I know of) built with air conditioning prior to introduction of the new look coach. Fifth Avenue obviously didn't have it long enough to repaint it when that fine photo was taken.

Recalling how lethargic the GM new look coaches were with those 6V71 Detroit Diesels and a/c turned on, I have to wonder if those old-look units ran the compressor off of the inline 6-71 Detroit as well. We had some new looks here in Louisville that you could collect your tax refund waiting for 'em to load up and go on a hot day!

Unless you worked on these, you might not know that there was an oil clutch that engaged the a/c compressor as well as the hydraulic evaporator fan rather than an electric motor. Pain in the ass, too -- prone to leakage, and needed clean Dextron II to work properly!

timecruncher

According to the OMOT site with the builder's list, there were 66 units in this order.

[ripta42]

[timecruncher]

That could very well be. The only units I know of with factory air conditioning from that era are the DC Transit units, this one is painted in their earlier (and very attractive) livery.

There are Thermo-King retrofits on old-look GM coahces here and there as well. St. Louis Public Service had lots of 'em, as did Memphis, Nashville and Tuscon. Didn't know about New Orleans, but it would make sense, as hot and humid as that city is 'year round.

Even Indianapolis & Southeastern Trailways had at least one TDM/H5105 (?) suburban with retrofit a/c that they used in suburban service around Indianapolis until the late sixties. I've got a photo here of one running the [then] busy Fort Harrison line downtown on Capitol Street.



Sorry about the bad photo -- it was a grab shot on an overcast day with my trusty Yashica Lynx 1000 and Kodachrome II!

Bi-State in St. Looie had some TDH4507's with an add-on unit as well:



This photo was taken by a good friend of mine who grew up in St. Louis. Thankfully, not many transit systems outside of the east coast put school bus lights on their buses.

timecruncher

[HwyHaulier]

Fifth Avenue #3200? I thought the OHIO rosters tell us it was considered a G M C T&C demo?

The bold and imaginative G M Engineering paint styling was "knock out gorgeous" when it hit the Washington streets, in the service of D C T S.
Yeah, on a hot day, they were no where near as peppy as the older WHITE 1150-WD types.

That's not why I called! In an over this past weekend e-mail, I have seen the latest from the Insane Asylum thought of as the San Francisco
Retirement Home For Old PCC Cars, or "F Line"! Those rascals have recently repainted a (presumably) ex Newark NJ car, and it is on Market
Street in all its D C T S glory. For info.

...................Vern..............

[timecruncher]

If it doesn't have a/c, it ain't DC Transit!

Off-thread, but does anyone recall the chrome hubs they put on their first new-look coaches?

Mighty fine. Or mighty tacky if you had to work on 'em...

timecruncher

And hey, Linsky -- Citizens Rapid Transit just wouldn't do business with GMC for their buses, would they? That was a Mack outfit until the very end, and then they went to Flxible until public takeover. Either someone had ties to Mack or had a burr up their behind for GM coaches, which although common everywhere, were probably better buses than the Macks.