BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

I came across this fine 1964 shot of a Hempstead (NY) Mack awhile ago, and I'm still intrigued by it. Notice the windows; they seem more like the type used on ACF-Brills than the "standard" windows seen on Macks.

To date, this is the only photo of a Mack I've come across with these windows; all the other Macks I've seen (either in photos or while I was growing up years ago) all utilized the same basic "Mack standard" windows. Just thought I'd share it here...... John http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?632

[Mr. Linsky]

John,

The Mack 'S' series (suburban) was a rare bird and I can find no two produced that had the same 'transom-less' window configuration.

The March/April 1974 issue of Motor Coach Age devoted entirely to the history of Mack shows no less than three specimens including Orange and Black, Lakeland Bus Lines and New Jersey Public Service and each of which had different windows.

The only statistic that I can come up with on Mack Suburbans is that just a handful were built and all after 1957.

There is another interesting picture in the same issue of a specially built C-45-GT for the U. S. Post Office of which 15 were ordered, and all with 'sedan doors!'

Mr. 'L'

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Mr. "L": Surely, you could write a best seller for bus historians, my friend! Thanks for the fascinating info! The only MACK suburbans I can remember were those rostered by the Orange & Black; and, if I'm not mistaken, these were retired around 1967.

As I had mentioned in one of my other threads, the ONLY Mack suburban that I know of surviving today is an ex-Greyhound coach, rostered by the Pacific Bus Museum. On a related note, Avenue B & East Broadway aquired a Mack suburban (C-49-DM), #501 in 1960, which had been a demonstrator on the PSNJ. #501 and her five sisters were purchased exclusively for racetrack service.

Pacific Greyhound took delivery of 30 C-49-DM's in 1957, and four were delivered to Richmond Greyhound. The Greyhound units had what I call "standard" windows, and not the "Brill"-type seen in the 1964 pic of the Hempstead "BrillMack". Another fascinating "mystery" to investigate...... John

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's ex-Greyhound Mack C-49 P-1683, owned by the Pacific Bus Museum. Here's where things get interesting; note that the coach here has STANDEE windows; in "MACK BUSES 1900-1960 PHOTO ARCHIVE" (edited by Harvey Eckart), it shows a Pacific Greyhound Mack C-49 (this one an "R"-series, R-2188) when new.

This coach had "suburban"-type windows, NOT the standee type seen on the preserved PBM coach.

Could that coach (P-1683) have been of a "semi-surburban" type, with one door, standeed windows, and "transit"-style seating? PSNJ had a number of semi-surburban Old Looks, as did the Orange & Black. More mysteries to be solved! John http://www.pacbus.org/roster/pbm1683.html

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Though these are both PSNJ Old Looks, I wanted to post them here, to better illustrate the differences between a "semi-suburban" and a "straight" suburban. While "straight" suburban F-700 features standard-type suburban windows, "semi-suburban" K-514 has standee windows, but has no center door, as would be the norm on a "straight" suburban. http://www.davemackey.com/psct/f700.html http://www.davemackey.com/psct/k514.html

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here are two views of the suburban Macks rostered by the Avenue B & East Broadway; both pics show coaches with the same suburban-style windows, which are the same as those on Pacific Greyhound's R-2188, as seen in the "MACK BUSES PHOTO ARCHIVE": http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?31 http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?32

[HwyHaulier]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Hi, Vern: Glad you've decided to jump on board....always good to have yet another skilled, adept player out on the field!<G> Compare the picture of that handsome Niagara Frontier "New Look" Mack with this beautiful coach once rostered by the now-gone Blue & White Company.

Note that it IS a TRANSIT....but.....it is sporting DIFFERENT window sashes; these windows are more in sync with those used on the Mack suburbans of Avenue B & E. Broadway (and Pacific Greyhound's R-2188).

So....here we see TWO Mack New Look transits with DIFFERENT window sashes!! Seems that Mack had even more intrigue than GMC in some areas..... John http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?145

[HwyHaulier]

John -

It demonstrates that MACK: 1) Did not have the same self imposed rigors on its production line, compared with GMC - T&C,
2) By date, ran more of a custom job shop, 3) Its design amenable to a wide variety of sash fabs available on the market...

Finally, and this just in from the Oracle At Delphos: "Late product much like action of drowning man!" (Charlie Chan may have
restated the MACKSim.) Compare. Chan may have said of ACF-Brill "Even fool must know Diesel like tsunami wave!"

....................Vern................

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Vern: Does indeed make good sense to me! Surely this was Mack's idea of the "Baby, do your own thing!" campaign, at least a decade before the general populace followed suit!<G> Certainly, GMC was much more "straight laced" than Mack in this case, but, hey, it makes some darn fascinating discussion, nearly 50 years later!! John

BTW: Here's another view of one of Blue & White's STUNNING New Look Macks....what a charmer!! http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?148

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

See also: http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1379 http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?143

[roymanning2000]

Mack built at least one suburban with windows like the Hempstead transit. It was originally delivered to an operator in the Schenectady area. I thought it later went to Avenue B & East Broadway but I'm not certain of that.

I know there is a picture out there so I'll search around for it. It was much more attractive than the standard sash used on the suburbans like the Greyhound.

Roy

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Hey, Roy: Sure would like to see that pic!! In my area of NJ when I was gowing up, Mack transits were commonplace, but only ONE company operated Mack suburbans (Orange & Black); the very last Macks to operate in my area were a VERY small fleet of Mack "New Looks", operated by the long-defunct Blue & White Bus Company. BEAUTIFUL coaches!! , in the mid-70s

I've posted a few shots of these classics here within the past few days. Can't believe I've not ridden on a Mack in OVER 40 YEARS!! TOO LONG a time to go "cold turkey"(!!) John