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Mississauga Transit
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daimlerbuses



Age: 24
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Mississauga Transit Reply with quote

Hey all,

Some of you may recognize me - I'm also daimlerbuses on CPTDB.

Since I live in Mississauga (which is great, I can stalk Orion Razz) I thought I'd give a brief explanation of the fleet.

The fleet consists today of Orion V's, Orion VI's, Orion VII's, New Flyer D40LF's, New Flyer D40LFR's, New Flyer D60LF's, New Flyer D60LFR's, and ElDorado EZ Rider MAX.

All orders from 2003 and onward have been from New Flyer, which is pretty sad considering we are Orion's home city. Mississauga Transit was a royal customer of Orion since 1978, until 2001, when the 14 Orion VII's arrived. The VII's have been nothing short of trouble for MT, from fires, poor build quality, electrical problems, and so on. Not to mention they were 8 months late being delivered - supposed to arrive in late 2001 but finally arrived in April of 2002. Yes, we did get the first ones ever built, but Orion has done little to rectify the issues, which has been a factor in MT not buying from Orion anymore.

Mississauga was also the first property to receive the Orion V model - and was very happy with them that in the end 6 seperate batches were ordered - 1989 (8901-25), 1990 (9001-20), 1991 (9101-40), 1992 (9201-10), 1993 (9301-12), 1997 (9701-35). Of these Orion V's, only 10 1991-1993 Orion V's remain active, along with all of the 1997 Orion V's (WMATA rejects). Also active are all of the 1997 Orion VI's (9801-9842).

As mentioned, since 2001 all orders have been from New Flyer and ElDorado, and the breakdown is as follows:
2001: D60LF, 0151-0160
2003: D40LF, 0301-0344
2005: D40LF, 0501-0572
2006: D40LFR, 0601-0653
2007: EZR, 0701-0712 and D40LFR, 0721-0735
2008: D40LFR, 0801-0844 0901-0925; D60LFR, 0851-0885; and EZR, 0888-0899

And finally, some of my photos of the various active buses in the Mississauga fleet:







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timecruncher



Age: 67
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All that and $3.00 bus fares! Our riders would croak if we charged that much to step on board!

And yet, it is so sensible that public service should be as self-supporting as possible from fares/user fees.

MT is a typically well-designed operation in a fairly modern city with wide streets and thick population density. The transit center (uh, centre) at Square One is a fascinating hub for operations and a great place for a bus 'foamer to just sit and watch the action.



Hrm -- a few New Flyers in evidence this Sunny Friday afternoon during the MBS convention this past October.

timecruncher
Poutine? Whadya mean gravy on my fries?
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Cdntruckphotog



Age: 65
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 43
Location: Mississauga Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Mississauga - Synomin for Suburban Sprawl Reply with quote

This particular scene makes me either want to choke or croak.
It was less than 30 years ago when this was all farmland!
The original land assembler Bruce McLaughlin built a shopping mall that was in the middle of a field and called it Square One.
Mississauga, which was only formed as a town in 1967 and had the towns of Streetsville and Port Credit amalgamated into it in 1972 (ish?) built a "City Hall" on the western perimeter of Square One on the side of Provincial Highway 10 now called Hurontario Street.
Rapid growth required a "new" city hall which was built on the south west perimeter of Square One. A Library was built next to it. Again; these buildings were sitting out in the middle of fields.
Cattle corn was grown in those fields so the property owner would pay farm taxes while the plans for the "final crop" of houses was approved then surveyed and built.
Mississauga is actually bedevilled by many areas with a low population density. Transit service is difficult to provide.
Most of the high rise buildings in the backgrounds of the MT pictures are not 10 years old.


Rob Archer
Mississauga ON.

PS; when did they put the fares up to 3.00? It was 2.50 or 2.75 the last time I rode MT.






timecruncher wrote:
All that and $3.00 bus fares! Our riders would croak if we charged that much to step on board!

And yet, it is so sensible that public service should be as self-supporting as possible from fares/user fees.

MT is a typically well-designed operation in a fairly modern city with wide streets and thick population density. The transit center (uh, centre) at Square One is a fascinating hub for operations and a great place for a bus 'foamer to just sit and watch the action.



Hrm -- a few New Flyers in evidence this Sunny Friday afternoon during the MBS convention this past October.

timecruncher
Poutine? Whadya mean gravy on my fries?
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timecruncher



Age: 67
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read 'em and weep:

http://www.mississauga.ca/file/COM/BusFares2009.pdf

Here in the 'states our transit managers and politicians -- few of whom actually ride the bus -- seem to think that transit service is one of those entitlements they so often like to shovel out to their constituents. Although fares are now beginning to creep up to $2.00 and higher here and there, most transit agencies would rather shut down than charge passengers even 50% of what it costs to serve them.

I realize that many of the high-rise buildings shown in my photo are not very old, but Mississauga has grown expotentially (as have the northeast suburbs and exburbs of Toronto) over the past two decades. Its been longer than you think. The system is well-developed and has a credible level of service throughout the city.

And apparently has discovered what a poor bus builder Orion is or was regardless of their proximity. That is another discussion, however!

timecruncher
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Cdntruckphotog



Age: 65
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 43
Location: Mississauga Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject: Mississauga Reply with quote

Thanks for the kind words about my city. So often, we who live in a city or region are often blinded to what outsiders appreciate.
I guess I'll have to have a LOONEY and a TWONEY in my pocket if I decide to ride the bus.


timecruncher wrote:

I realize that many of the high-rise buildings shown in my photo are not very old, but Mississauga has grown expotentially (as have the northeast suburbs and exburbs of Toronto) over the past two decades. Its been longer than you think. The system is well-developed and has a credible level of service throughout the city.timecruncher
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timecruncher



Age: 67
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Louisville, Kentucky

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least your country is sensible enough to have a dollar and two dollar coin. We continue with our paper money that must be replaced every few months of circulation and which is easily counterfieted.

I knew that Mississauga was an amalgem of two or more smaller cities, but didn't know their names.

Down here in Kentucky, we have our Beaver Dam, Gravel Switch and Big Bone Lick, of course...

timecruncher

Heh -- and there's a cheese vendor at the local farmer's market (here in Louisville) on Saturdays who is former Quebequois. Son fromage est magnificient! Mais non peu coûteux.

timecruncher
le horaire-adjusteur
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daimlerbuses



Age: 24
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

timecruncher wrote:
Read 'em and weep:

http://www.mississauga.ca/file/COM/BusFares2009.pdf

Here in the 'states our transit managers and politicians -- few of whom actually ride the bus -- seem to think that transit service is one of those entitlements they so often like to shovel out to their constituents. Although fares are now beginning to creep up to $2.00 and higher here and there, most transit agencies would rather shut down than charge passengers even 50% of what it costs to serve them.

I realize that many of the high-rise buildings shown in my photo are not very old, but Mississauga has grown expotentially (as have the northeast suburbs and exburbs of Toronto) over the past two decades. Its been longer than you think. The system is well-developed and has a credible level of service throughout the city.

And apparently has discovered what a poor bus builder Orion is or was regardless of their proximity. That is another discussion, however!

timecruncher

If you want it in a nutshell, it really is said, because Mississauga Transit brought nothing but Orion (unless they couldn't get it from Orion) from 1978 until 2001 when the Orion VII's arrived. A lot of people I have spoken to have said one of the reasons for the downfall of Orion around that time was the fact that the Orion 7 was more or less rushed through the design stage, and thus many flaws came up, but by that time they had an order backlog of over a thousand units. To take it further, the VII was in talks of engineering in 1998 after the Orion VI. Orion realized that they wouldn't win much contracts with the Orion VI in the 2000's.

However, part of the problem with Mississauga is that Orion refuses to acknowledge or help us with the issues we've been experiencing (LONG laundry list of them) and when Mississauga Transit stopped paying for the VII's after 2 units caught fire, Orion took the city to court over it and there the saga really unfolded. Sure, you could say that Mississauga got the very first production models, but the fact that they were delivered 10 months late, have problems, and nothing has been done, is inexcusable.

However, Orion have majorly improved since the first production builds, but the damage has already been done. Orion used to have a very strong hold on the Ontario bus market until the early 2000's, here are just a sample of Ontario customers who became pissed off at Orion over the Orion VII and went elsewhere for buses:

If you combine these customers based on number of buses ordered in 2008 which Orion could have supplied (given all of these customers are pretty much loyal to one manufacturer), Orion solely in 2007-2008 had lost out on building a total of 240 buses just based on these Ontario customers in ONE year. If you consider each 40' bus is roughly 430K right now (that 240 bus figure is based on 40') then Orion has lost a total of $103.2 Million in potential revenue, and that's just in Ontario in one year alone.


Last edited by daimlerbuses on Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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RailBus63
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 1063

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orion has locked down the Toronto Transit Commission, though - 1,226 Orion VII's delivered through 2008 and another 250 being delivered or on order.
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daimlerbuses



Age: 24
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, 661 Orion VII diesels and 694 Orion VII hybrids delivered since 2003, for a total of 1, 355. On order are 120 Orion VII diesel buses for delivery in 2010, in which after the tender will be open again.

And to be fair, the only other people in Canada as a whole (not just Ontario) that have Orion VII's on order these days are Sault Ste. Marie, ON; Ottawa, ON; and Saint John, NB.
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daimlerbuses



Age: 24
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's actually funny that we're sitting here talking about Mississauga Transit and Orion - because MT has ordered 15 Orion VII Next Generation buses for delivery in 2010. What a shocker, if you ask me!
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is interesting.

As a bus fan, I’m pleased – nothing against New Flyer’s products, but MT was on the verge of becoming very boring!
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daimlerbuses



Age: 24
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can add another 22 to that order - confirmed with an Orion sales rep that the order from Orion is for 15 Orion VII Hybrid buses and 22 Orion VII diesel buses, for a total of 37 buses.
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daimlerbuses



Age: 24
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And some press from Orion's site:

Code:
Mississauga Transit Places Order for First EPA 2010 Orion VII Hybrids and Orion VII BRT Buses

MISSISSAUGA, Ontario – Mississauga Transit has ordered 15 Orion VII diesel-electric hybrid buses and 20 clean-diesel buses with Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) styling. Delivery for this order is scheduled to begin in late summer 2010.
“We are very happy to once again be doing business with our hometown transit agency and helping Mississauga Transit launch its BRT service,” said Patrick Scully, chief commercial officer for Daimler Buses North America. “Many of our over 500 employees at our Mississauga facility use public transit, so it’s even more rewarding for them to ride on buses that they built.”
The order of 35 buses will share the commonality of meeting the new 2010 emission standards for diesel engines operating in Canada. Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) technology is how the Orion VII will ensure these new emission standards are successfully met.
“Worldwide, Daimler has implemented SCR on diesel buses, trucks, and cars, making this a truly well tested and proven system,” added Mr. Scully. “Our product engineers at Orion have worked closely with our emission specialists in Europe to optimize our design and implement an already successful solution.”
The 225,000-sq. foot facility in Mississauga is where production of all Orion VII buses begins. Here the integrated chassis/body structure is assembled, before it is shipped to Oriskany, N.Y. where the bus is finished and delivered.
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Cdntruckphotog



Age: 65
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Location: Mississauga Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:01 pm    Post subject: Should we start a new Topic? Reply with quote

So; how much?
How much will one of these go for?
Where will the BRT buses run?
What is BRT styling?
I'm still a little confused over the idea of this BRT.
Where will it start and where will it terminate?
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Should we start a new Topic? Reply with quote

Cdntruckphotog wrote:
So; how much?
How much will one of these go for?
Where will the BRT buses run?
What is BRT styling?
I'm still a little confused over the idea of this BRT.
Where will it start and where will it terminate?


Mississauga.ca - Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) project homepage
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