BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

I received a very interesting inquiry via another website unrelated to transportation from a young man by the name of Carl Succa of Pennsylvania who indicated that he was seeking family tree information about his great grandfather John G. Succa who founded Green Bus Lines.

In my years of relationship with the company, I knew the name John Succa and knew that he was the president of Triboro Coach but it wasn't until I read both Alan Bromberger's comprehensive history of Green Line (October/December 2000 Motor Coach Age) and thumbed the hundreds of pages of notes left to me by Don Weiss (another well known New York bus historian) that the elder Mr. Succa's role in the formation of the company became clear.

My response was as follows;

Dear Mr. Succa,

Thank you for your inquiry concerning your great grandfather John G. Succa who was instrumental in the formation and operation of Green Bus Lines and, subsequently, the Triboro Coach Corporation.

While I have no information on Mr. Succa’s immediate or extended family, I can certainly give you a broad picture of his foray into the transportation business literally from day one, and I can also tell you that as a youngster I had the pleasure of meeting him on more than one occasion which I will elaborate upon later.

Your great grandfather was a native New Yorker and, upon his discharge from the Army after World War 1, he found work as a conductor on the streetcars of the Third Avenue Railway System (TARS) in Manhattan.

It was not long after that, and hearing of the good fortunes that jitney-men were enjoying in Bridgeport, Connecticut, that Mr. Succa bought his first bus at a cost of what he remembered as being $7000 and became a jitney operator in that New England city.

At the same time in Manhattan (about 1919), downtown battery car routes (not to be confused with third rail electric traction cars) were being discontinued and independent bus operators were beginning to obtain revocable permits issued by the then Department of Plants and Structures (DP&S) to service some of the very lucrative cross-town runs.

In 1922, John Succa returned to New York to continue his career as a DP&S supervised owner/operator on the Madison and Chambers Street route and by 1924 he, along with fellow drivers John R. Thompson and Samuel Friedman, formed the Mutual Omnibus Corporation which encompassed most of the independents working not only Madison and Chambers but also Spring and Delancey. Mr. Succa became Mutual’s president.

Pursuant to a resolution adopted by the city Board of Estimate in March of 1925, a list of bus routes thought to be worthy of long-term franchises was issued with invitations to bid. In response, Succa and some of his associates formed Green Bus Lines which was formally incorporated on April 3rd. 1925.

After the dust settled in early 1933, Green Bus Lines won six cross-town routes including Madison/Chambers, Spring/Delancey, 49th/50th, 79th, 86th. and 96th. streets.

This was not the end of the beginning but the beginning of the end for the company in Manhattan!

The Omnibus Corporation which was the parent company of both Fifth Avenue Coach in New York and Chicago Motor Coach in that city was bent upon taking over Manhattan and, with adequate political influence, finally forced Green Line out in 1936 with the city’s promise of what were to become lucrative franchises in southeastern Queens.

Green Line had already established three or four key routes in the outer borough and, by acquisition, built up one of the largest privately owned bus companies in the country.

One such acquisition were the independent operators of the Rockaways headed by a gentleman by the name of William Cooper who was to become president of Green Line under Mr. Succa as Chairman of the Board.

This relationship continued until 1946 when the Cooper/Succa syndicate purchased the failing Triboro Coach Corporation of Jackson Heights, Queens with Mr. Succa’s ascension to its presidency.

The records show that in 1970 William Cooper took the reigns of Triboro which would indicate that John Succa either retired or passed away.

Where I fit in this story; William Cooper was my second cousin and one of my father’s closest friends.

You might say that my interest in Green Line started some years before I was born when my father, a surgeon by profession, invested a tidy some in the company along with several others to help buy 113 brand new buses in 1933 to meet city franchise requirements to operate the cross-town Manhattan routes.

The investment earned my father a seat on the Board of Directors of the company and, as a little boy, I used to go along with him to the garage for monthly meetings, and that is how I met your great grandfather.

For the life of me, I cannot remember what he looked like (I must have been all of six years old at the time) but I know that he was a very nice man.

I’m including an interesting picture of a model ‘AB’ Mack bus seen plying the Chambers Street route about 1927 or so and very possibly being driven by your great grandfather!

A. Linsky



Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[Cyberider]

Interesting history, Mr. Linsky. I bet Carl was surprised to get an answer from someone who had met his great-grandfather!

[Mr. Linsky]

I really don't know because Carl hasn't acknowledged my note (yet).

I know I'd sure be surprised to meet someone who knew my great grandfather!

BTW; not to go off topic but I can't waist a whole post with just two lines (you know me!).

You have to watch Dave Letterman - he's gotten much better since Leno went off and even upped his monologue time.

He's doing the funniest routine every night with his Madoff count down clock which tells us how many years, months, days, hours, minutes and seconds Mr. Madoff has left to serve before his release from prison which is now about 149 years, 11 months, 20 days and so on.

Now they just have to figure out who will maintain the clock after Letterman retires! (and several successors after that!).

Mr. 'L'

[Free-transfer]

Mr. Linsky,

Recently, somebody posted a link to a photo album for Pennsylvania Bus Operators in the 60's and 70's. Perusing through that album, I found this gem...



You'll notice 341 signed as a Q-21. Look around, notice anything else?
Not my photo.

[Mr. Linsky]

F. T.,

Fabulous find!!!!!!!!!!!

I put the whole thing together in about 35 seconds;

Green Line # 341 was the only 4509 that went to Reading Bus Company in Reading, Pennsylvania and the records indicate that it went there in the beginning of 70's.

Green Line, as well as Triboro sold Reading a ton (or two) of 4507's and I see four Triboros in the lineup.

They must have just been delivered because Reading repainted everything they got to their own livery (as is noted on the 4506 #703 on the right end of the row).

Pictured below is what's left of one of Green Line's 4507's after Reading finished with it.

Thanks so much for sharing.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[Mr. Linsky]

The shot above of the Reading Bus Company yard with the ex Green and Triboro equipment is extremely nostalgic to me, and I keep going back to it because of its fascination.

You might say that these buses were caught on camera as they began to make their transition from over twenty years of big city service to the 'rest home' atmoshpere of a quaint Pennsylvania hamlet - a well deserved semi retirement.

And, when you throw into the mix the fact that I drove #341 many many times during my three summers with Green Line, you'll realize the importance that the image has for me.

BTW; information received since the posting of the photo along with my comments indicates that the Green Line/Triboro relationship to Reading might have been more than casual with some ownership affiliation a possibility.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[timecruncher]

Harrisburg Railways was an ATE property for many years prior to public takeover. Could ATE have had some link to a New York City carrier? ATE buses in the sixties and seventies were painted silver with a broad green stripe under the windows.

Note 718 at the far right of that row of tired-looking buses: It is in the ATE scheme that TANK used after public takeover here. The green stripe was simply painted orange and the TANK logo added. That happened in 1972, and I don't know the date of this photo, but there were bus swaps between northern Kentucky's Green Line (the original ATE property), Nashville, Chattanooga, Harrisburg, Virginia Transit Company -- all locations -- all the time during the years leading up to public ownership.

timecruncher

[Mr. Linsky]

T. C.,

I've checked through my photo album and the closest I can come (livery wise) to # 718 in the Reading image would be the buses of Hudson County Boulevard in Northern New Jersey.

Hudson County Boulevard was one of the many members of the Independent Bus Operators Association (IBOA) in that part of the state.

The concept which was similar to the 'Owner/Operator' system in New York City in the twenties and early thirties lasted well into the second half of the twentieth century before they were finally eaten up by New Jersey Transit.

Notice, in particular, the livery of the GM Old Look (left side of frame) which could well have been from the same fleet as 718.

Apparently, 718 was put into service by Reading before a new paint job was applied.

Photo credit; Cyberider of GMOldLookBus.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

[timecruncher]

The semblance is uncanny.

Oooh - and is that a Mack 'new look' hiding behind that C-41?

timecruncher

[HwyHaulier]

[ripta42]

Ooh, what's playing at the Lowey's Jersey?

That's not a Mack New Look. The windshield looks vaguely ACF-Brillish, but not the rest of the front clip... maybe a White?

[HwyHaulier]

[Hart Bus]

[Mr. Linsky]

ECA,

Do you remember the old radio show called 'Albert Mitchell's The Answer Man'?

Well here I am!

Referencing #703; this is a 1946 GM TD 4506 and may well have come from New York originally because of the motorized ventilation system on the roof which was required by all New York operators.

The paint job, fleet number style and placement are strictly Reading Bus (as shown on #822 attached which was an ex Triboro)

The records show no original purchase of 4506's by either Steinway or Queens/Nassau.

BTW; the license plate on #703 could also be Pennsylvania as they used a similar yellow in that era.

Referencing #341; this is a 1950 GM TDH 4509 and one of thirty five originally delivered to my Alma Mater (Green Bus Lines) - a sister ship (#324) also attached.

Photo credit for #324 - Green Line Archives.

Regards,

WCA

[timecruncher]

A White! Of course! Louisville had a bunch of 1946 Whites of the older design -- gas buses all, with defective transmissions and voratious fuel appetites!

Linsky - both the Reading photo and the Green Bus Line photos are great! Louisville Transit did not purchase any 35-foot buses after 1948, so the only ones in the city were the ten or so that suburban Blue Motor Coach owned (all 4512s) and the two the Bridge Transit Company operated to Jeffersonville and Clarksville, Indiana from downtown Louisville. LTC did not own an air-ride bus until 1961 when the first 28 new looks arrived.

Real buses, these.



timecruncher
"Driver, hold that bus for me..."