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The venerable PD4106
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Dieseljim
Deceased



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:55 am    Post subject: Hudson Transit (Shortline) 4106's Reply with quote

Didn't any of Hudson Transit's 4106s have seven speed trannies, given the topography of much of the territory THAT Shortline operates in, particularly that long Wurtsboro upgrade on 17 west. It would seem to me that a fully loaded 4106 would need more than just a Spicer 4 speed to pull that big hill going west. At that time Shortline operated as far west as Binghamton. It wasn't until the late 1960s they were into Olean and that in conjunction with Blue Bird Coach Lines, which,by then, had received their last 4106s and just got several 4107 Buffaloes.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a little beauty from Long Island, New York.

Seen below (upper photo) is fleet number 504 - a 1962 GM PD 4106 (ser# 601 - order # 111241) delivered to the Schenck Tours Division of Schenck Transportation Company, Inc. of Floral Park, New York in March of that year.

With a 41 passenger capacity, this 35 foot long, 96 inch wide Parlor Car derived its power from a Detroit Diesel 8V-71 engine, and was equipped with Air Conditioning, lavatory and cold drinking water fountain.

While Schenck's transit operation (see lower photo) has long been merged into the MTA's Long Island Bus, the tour division continued and may still be a viable entity today.

Note the 5300 series Suburban in the background also belonging to the company.

Photo credits; upper - Richard Silagi, lower - Vince Syrek

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


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Steve Carras



Age: 63
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: Hudson Transit (Shortline) 4106's Reply with quote

Dieseljim wrote:
Didn't any of Hudson Transit's 4106s have seven speed trannies, given the topography of much of the territory THAT Shortline operates in, particularly that long Wurtsboro upgrade on 17 west.


SEVEN SPEED? That would be odd!
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pictured below in a factory pose courtesy the Motor Bus Society, we see fleet # 511 - a 1934 Mack Model 'CL' and one of fifteen (510 to 524) delivered to the Brooklyn Bus Corporation subsidiary of the Brooklyn and Manhattan Transit Company (BMT) in March of that year.

The thirty seat model CL was popular in the early thirties but could not rival the Twin Coach version and sold only some 450 with about 170 of those going to New York City operators.

Whereas most CL's came with rear doors behind the rear wheels, Brooklyn's buses were ordered with center exits as well as the first wide use of curbside destination signs.

The Brooklyn Bus Corporation (not to be confused with commonly owned trolley operator Brooklyn & Queens Transit) was formed in the early thirties to create bus lines where there were no traction services.

The BMT along with its subsidiaries was taken over by the City of New York Board of Transportation in 1940 at which time the Brooklyn Bus Division was founded.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Let me tell you something;

The GM PD 4106 was good anywhere!

I truly believe that the 4106 was the best conceived and best built bus ever made and will ever be made hands down (nothing will ever touch it - and I'll fight on that point until the day they take me away!).

I talk from experience because I used to race the Carey jobs into what is now JFK and I was driving a really fast 5104 with a broken governor and I could't touch them.

It was the raw GM 8V-71 Diesel power pushing the six wheels on those 06's that left us all in the dust.

I'll never forget them!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


My sentiments, exactly!!!!
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HwyHaulier wrote:
Mr 'L' -

Not all PD-4106 coaches were equal. I clearly recall there were the Eastern GL units, and then there were the Safeway Trailways (Continental)
counterparts. The latter by a bunch of guys, who must have had hot rod Lincolns, and drag racing for off the clock hobbies. American Graffiti
sort of stuff...

The Safeway coaches had Eaton Fuller Road Ranger (or equivalent). Greyhound did not opt for that fancy. Now, why Safeway, CTS alter ego,
held a belief they needed the marvelous gadget on an 8V-71 powered coach is another matter...

The whole matter seen when a pair of the competitors were coming off the starting line. The Trailways units were a great deal faster off
the line! I stll can't figure how Safeway ever calculated its own service territory needed coaches of this much capability!

....................Vern...............


I know this is an old post, but I must disagree.
Safeway 4106's had the same four speed transmission as everyone else's.
Their late model 4104's had the 'splitter' on the rear axle.
There are other factors that could affect the performance. The 8v-71 could be ordered with three different horsepower ratings determined by their fuel injector nozzles.. The maximum was 318 HP. Some drivers refered to this engine as the '318'.
Another factor was the axle ratio. A lower ratio would give better off-the-line performance, but a lower top speed in each gear. Vermont Transit ordered lower gearing to suit its mountainous territory.
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trailblazer -

Hey! Thanks! At this point, I surely wish I had photos, and testimony taken under oath on the issues of the same piece
of equipment (by model type). Why a SAFEWAY - C T S acted so much differently than a comparable EASTERN G L...

.......................Vern.......................
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HwyHaulier wrote:
trailblazer -

Hey! Thanks! At this point, I surely wish I had photos, and testimony taken under oath on the issues of the same piece
of equipment (by model type). Why a SAFEWAY - C T S acted so much differently than a comparable EASTERN G L...

.......................Vern.......................

One other factor....the garage could crank up the governor limit on RPM's somewhat. I believe this is most likely the reason for the difference.
I remember well Eagles passing Scenicruisers on the Pennsylvania Turnpike especially with the likes of George ('handlebars') Jameson at the wheel! Wink
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trailblazer -

Oh, comparisons with the SCENICRUISER not entirely fair? The coaches did get "peppier" with the reworked/ replaced motor setups
(which led to endless feuding between G M and G L)... Both acted like children, and knew they didn't start with large enough motors!

Keeping the playing field level, I simply noted what I saw (and rode in the passenger seats) the regular 4106 Smack Down between
C T S and G L (E) coaches. In considering the "off the line" handling of the competitors (and from what little I know from gearboxes):
Did it not suggest the G L 4106 may have had a higher "top end" number? ("Somewhere West Of Laramie" gear? <G>)

BTW. Just over a decade later, I was in the seats with a similar Smack Down on Boeing 737 types, departing SFO. Simultaneous
takeoffs of WESTERN and UNITED schedules bound for RENO! That was quite amusing, if the traveler realized what was going on,
getting out of SFO for the morning. It was a "guy thing"! <G>...

.......................Vern.......................
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HwyHaulier wrote:
trailblazer -

Oh, comparisons with the SCENICRUISER not entirely fair? The coaches did get "peppier" with the reworked/ replaced motor setups
(which led to endless feuding between G M and G L)... Both acted like children, and knew they didn't start with large enough motors!

Keeping the playing field level, I simply noted what I saw (and rode in the passenger seats) the regular 4106 Smack Down between
C T S and G L (E) coaches. In considering the "off the line" handling of the competitors (and from what little I know from gearboxes):
Did it not suggest the G L 4106 may have had a higher "top end" number? ("Somewhere West Of Laramie" gear? <G>)

BTW. Just over a decade later, I was in the seats with a similar Smack Down on Boeing 737 types, departing SFO. Simultaneous
takeoffs of WESTERN and UNITED schedules bound for RENO! That was quite amusing, if the traveler realized what was going on,
getting out of SFO for the morning. It was a "guy thing"! <G>...

.......................Vern.......................


Yes, sir! Back in those days, pilots like drivers, could 'put the pedal to the metal' (or in this case throttles to the stops), when jet fuel was so relatively cheap. They could almost always leave late, and make it in on time.
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Steve Carras



Age: 63
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seven gears in those would be a special order if anything. Four gears with different axle and horsepower deals as mentioned sounds sufficient.This is coming from a rider (though it's been years since I rode a GM) and not from a driver, though. I did, as mentioned before, in last few years in Mexico in assocviaiton with cruise ship lines (Princess and also Norwegian) ride Mercedes Benz's with as many as 12 speeds.

One thing that we'll agree was NEVER used, though, on buses:

Two Gearshifts like on a rig...if ANYONE knows of ANY parlour bus maker with a main gearbox and backup - 5 x 4, 20 speed, I'd like to hear, though of course it would NOT be from GM or MCI unless as aftermarket retrofit like a lot of RV convedrsions, mentioned in this thread. Of course if it were to me I would buy a 4104 with four speed and get a four speed brownie, if locatable and if I had license, insurance, moiney,all that red tape, either for my own use or vfor my own bus lines. THAT would be a retrofit!

But as we all know, NOTHING like that from greyhound.

Just good old 4-on the floor. Plus double clutch and solenoid switch on 1-2 shift reverse.
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Steve Carras



Age: 63
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Posts: 63

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: The venerable PD4106 Reply with quote

timecruncher wrote:
Back in my youth - relative to today - I worked part-time for a local charter outfit on my off days from Queen City Metro. I did it mostly for fun, since the pay was far less than stellar unless you managed to get a good tip out of a group.

At first it was an outfit called Price Hill Coach Lines, a small line-haul and charter company in Hamilton, OH that rose out of the ashes of The Ohio Bus Line after its demise. The fleet was entirely PD4106 models until he got the AAA tour contract in the mid-seventies and purchased a couple of new MC-8s for those trips.

I had never driven a manual transmission bus, although I understood the concept. The owner, a closet bus fan himself, basically told me to get in the driver's seat, shove in the clutch, put it in first gear and go. It took a short while for me to get the double-clutching 'timing' down, but there were no gear teeth or clutch parts on the pavement when I managed to get back to the yard. The next weekend, I was off to Bowling Green, Ohio with the Miami University hockey team.



Here is one of the half-dozen or so 06' in the fleet in 1980. He bought them from Hausman Bus Sales in Chicago, and all were ex-WGL units.

A couple of years later, the guy sold Price Hill to a couple of guys from Indiana, who proceeded to expand the service, subsequently selling it to Illini-Swallow interests.

Meanwhile, the guy who sold PHCL missed the bus business so much that he formed Jubilee Tours, took back many of the accounts he used to have, and picked up an MC8, a PD4905 and a couple of new MC9s. Finding that he didn't want to use the 40-foot buses for the then common beer charters, he found four PD4106 units out on the west coast and we took off on a road trip, flying out to LA, then driving to San Bernadino to pick up these four buses from Roesch Lines. Never used in line-haul work, these buses had spent most of their lives running group tours to Las Vegas from the southern California area.



These buses were almost 20 years old already, but except for some worn spots in the linoleum floor covering, were original -- no rust, original seat covers, pristine in every way! And all of them had working a/c and ran like scalded dogs!

He then proceeded to drive us like cattle for 3 days from San Berdoo to Hamilton, OH... It was fun, but somehow like a death march. Remember, in 1985 the speed limit was 55 everywhere. We never ran under 70 that I can recall.

The trip went like this:
San Bernadino, CA - Gallup, NM
Gallup, NM - Oklahoma City, OK
Oklahoma City, OK - Hamilton, OH (at 3:00am)

Here is a 'through the windshield' shot of the parade heading east on I-40 somewhere between Barstow and Needles.



The following morning, we grabbed a bite at a coffee shop on US 66 in Gallup, NM. Note the clean rears on those buses -- all were in top-notch condition and didn't slobber oil like is so common with Detroit-powered buses of their age!



Never got a chance to take any more pix on the trip, since we were either driving or sleeping for the remainder of the miles. The four buses ran flawlessly and proved to be useful additions to the fleet until the owner decided to retire a few years later, after discovering that his son did not wish to actually work for a living (running a small charter bus outfit is work, folks).

The PD4106 was, indeed, a workhorse bus. With the 8V-71 Detroit Diesel and Spicer 4-speed transmission, these machines could go anywhere and did so on a daily basis all over North America for over 30 years. The downside was the finicky nature of the a/c compressor drive (alignment and hydraulic clutch were both a bitch to maintain), a minor problem solved by aggressive maintenance. They were slippery on wet road surfaces too, a shortcoming that was cured with the introduction of radial-ply tires for highway coaches. The 4106 was fun and easy to drive, even without power steering.

It has been 25 years since this adventure, and I occasionally see one of these buses that was bought and converted into an RV by someone in southeastern Indiana.
timecruncher


Or they'll be still going all over America as small charter service buses as late as 2001 or even today I'll still see some like in the Rockies by the Crazy Horse mountains--this is a Mount Rushmore like attraction--and they had some of these with THEIR ORIGINAL FOUR SPEED TRANNIES!!!--and you will still see them for charter services or as motorhomes with their MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS. THat is probaly how you've seen them in Indiana...and in Mexico they're problay still rujnning. Hell, if I ran a charter service I would use them and only with manual transmission (why automatics retrofitted--unless it's one of the offerings of the era-is ANOTHER question!Smile)

Thanls for posting, timecruncher...
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JimmiB



Age: 81
Joined: 19 Apr 2011
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Location: Lebanon, PA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drove several models at a small charter co. in PA. but the 4 speed 4106's were always my favorite. We had 2 of them and for several years they were our primary coaches.
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimmiB wrote:
Drove several models at a small charter co. in PA. but the 4 speed 4106's were always my favorite. We had 2 of them and for several years they were our primary coaches.


I concur. To me they were the best driver's bus ever built. They could run circles around anything before or since, they were easy to shift, especially compared with the 4107 that followed. About the only downside was the rear end could get squirrely on slick roads, but once you were seasoned with 'em, they were fine.
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Mr. Linsky
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've often told this story before but I'll bring it out again for an airing for you new comers;

I worked three summers during my college years for Green Bus Lines (NY) and very often drove a 'night car' on the Q10 Lefferts Boulevard line which had four branches including what was then New York International Airport (now known as JFK).

On the airport run, I'd come down through Richmond Hill Circle past the sewer plant and out and around the curve in front of the Federal Building which put me right on the Van Wyck Extension and a four mile non-stop straightaway to the main terminal.

Invariably, as I entered the Van Wyck I'd look in my mirror to see a Carey Transportation 4106 coming right at me and hauling you know what to pass me like I was standing still!

Now, I had no thought of any race with a 4106 from behind the wheel of a 4507, a 4509 or even an agile 5104 - it just wouldn't be in the cards.

But my luck changed if for only one night when I'm behind the wheel of a 'hot' 5104 (hot meaning a broken governor) and it was off to the races with my pedal on that metal and a speedometer reading 75!

While I didn't beat this driver (who always joked with me about what I was driving) I did give him a run for his money pushing him all the way to the terminal - I'll never forget his facial expression and head scratching as we both left our buses for a quick coffee break together.

Those were great fun time.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

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