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MCI Classics Still Operating in Buffalo and Rochester

 
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Dieseljim
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Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 548
Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject: MCI Classics Still Operating in Buffalo and Rochester Reply with quote

In case anyone was wondering about the MCI Classic transit bus, they are still in operation in Buffalo and Rochester,NY, though the NFTA tentatively has plans to phase them out. I saw one on Transit Road in the Williamsville area on the 48 Line yesterday. NFTA has New Flyer low floor buses, too. So evidently it is going to be some time before the Classics are gone from these two cities. Certainly the next best thing to the GM "New Looks" which are my favorite transit buses. The way I say it, as long as the bus is still reliable, why not keep it in service as long as possiblt and REALLY get your money's worth out of it? I don't see why a transit property shouldn't get as much as 20 years or more from a bus if it is capable of going that long and parts are still available. Having a 12 year service limit can be just plain wasteful and add unnecessary expense to a transit system's operations.
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Mr. Linsky
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Santa Monica's 'Big Blue Bus' still operates a number of Classics as can be seen in the photos that I took only some months ago.

The way SM cares for their equipment, these buses could go at least another ten years with ease.

Number 4803 is signed for the '7' route running from Santa Monica to the Pico/Rimpau terminal which is about half way to downtown L.A.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


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Dieseljim
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:50 am    Post subject: The MCI Classic Reply with quote

Nice photos. Now that's the way a REAL transit bus should look. No fancy bells and whistles, or gussied up body style that makes the bus look more like a turd on wheels like a certain NOVA model of which Buffalo has 21 examples.And I thought the last generation Chevy Caprice looked like a turd, too!
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: MCI Classics Still Operating in Buffalo and Rochester Reply with quote

Dieseljim wrote:
...I don't see why a transit property shouldn't get as much as 20 years or more from a bus if it is capable of going that long and parts are still available. Having a 12 year service limit can be just plain wasteful and add unnecessary expense to a transit system's operations...


Dieseljim -

BINGO! Best we not set the old roller signs to: OT LAND EXPRESS

You question the seemingly corrupt, wasteful, and completely suspect mandates of twelve (12) year cycles? In the Bad, Old Days, Treasury
Department (IRS) simply would not permit such fast write offs!

What! What! Was this in some Omnibus Bus Builders Protection Act, that we wouldn't have approved had we all voted on it? Or, still another
perverse decision of some Honorable Court, where we all have basic Fourteenth Amendment protections of new busses on which to ride?

....................Vern...................
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ripta42
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The twelve-year service life isn't a "mandate," it's the minimum amount of time a bus must be operated before it's eligible for federal replacement funds. Most buses do last longer than twelve years. I recently saw an FTA report that said the average life cycle of a "twelve-year" city transit bus nationwide was in fact eighteen years.

As far as Classics go, this marks the first year in a quarter century there are none in service. Most lasted 19-20 years, and New York Bus Service's three 1984 GM Classics made it to the age of 21. Thirteen year old Nova Classics are still running strong in Connecticut, and I think a handful of 1991-92 MCIs may still be around. Farther west, Pace is still running fourteen year old Nova Classics with no immediate plans for their retirement.
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ripta42 -

Thanks for clarification. The rule still has the result that, let's imagine a hyothetical transit district, with mentality of money burning a hole in its pocket.
All it ever delivers is endless spend, spend, spend, so that others may pay...

Years back, the privately owned operators sorely needed fast write off schedules. It would have overcome a part of the revenue deficiency issues, the
problem that crashed all of it...

(The related problem: Rates and pricing did not contain protections so that carriers were "made whole" against ravages of inflation. End result was a
case of going broke in installments. NCL knew of the problems by ca. 1951. Some of the freight carriers knew, and used, appropriate fixes. City transit
lines weren't prepared to utilize it, but not that it wasn't applicable. See also, work of Dr. W. Edwards Deming.)

.................Vern...............
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not clear to me how some U.S. transit agencies manage to find the money to replace buses right at 12 years while others end up having to keep old buses going well beyond that point. Locally in Central New York, the CNYRTA has had to fight to get money to buy new buses - the 1999-2000 order of CNG Orion V's was funded in part by a unique lease agreement in order to come up with sufficient funds to buy all 78 buses. TCAT in Ithaca is still running 18 to 20 year old Orion I's and still does not have enough money to buy replacements for all of these older units. I'm assuming that some lawmakers have more 'pull' when it comes to securing this money for their districts than others.
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HwyHaulier




Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 932
Location: Harford County, MD

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RailBus63

RailBus63 wrote:
...funded in part by a unique lease agreement in order to come up with sufficient funds to buy all 78 buses....

The "sale and lease back" tactic. It is a double edged sword. Its dark side, it can be explosively treacherous. Absent positive,
net cash flows, it can prove ruinous...

These high falutin' finance guys, BTW, are no smarter than you and I. The tactic above is a somewhat more dignified and
respectable variant of the real estate craze, get rich on other people's money schemes. All one needs, the TV assures us, is
a $39.95 book, a telephone, and one's good looks optional.

Quote:
...I'm assuming that some lawmakers have more 'pull' when it comes to securing this money for their districts than others...

Some more equal than others, ala' Animal Farm here? In one of the Washington dailies, the late Drew Pearson reported upon
it in his celebrated, Washington Merry-Go-Round work...

.................Vern..............
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Dieseljim
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Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:21 am    Post subject: Classics in Rochester,NY Reply with quote

Rochester's Classics come in two versions; 600 series buses are the standard transit buses for all stops locals primarily, while the 400s are single door suburban "muzzle loaders" for limited stops express runs, such as Park and Ride routes and other limited stops services. The last similar buses the NFTA in Buffalo had were several Orions configured for suburban type service and single door muzzle loaders.
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RailBus63
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I visited Rochester and Buffalo on Monday (photos coming soon). The 400-series single-door Classics have been retired by RGRTA and the 600-series city versions are on their way out now that the first of the new Gillig BRT's are in service.

In Buffalo, I wouldn't be surprised if some of NFTA's Classics stick around a while longer. The authority has 91 new 40-foot buses on order from Gillig (35 hybrids and 56 clean-diesels) but they also still have at least that many of the older 1993 New Flyer and 1995 American Ikarus high-floor buses in operation. Most of the Classics are still in the old orange and brown scheme but some have been repainted in the new white scheme. The Classics (as well as the Nova LFS's) are assigned to the weekday-only Cold Springs Terminal so they do not operate on weekends.

Jim D.
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Dieseljim
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Joined: 26 Jun 2008
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Location: Perry, NY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:52 pm    Post subject: Classics Reply with quote

NFTA also has some of the short length and standard Length Gillig Advantages at their Cold Spring barn. I saw several of both on the 48 Williamsville route last time I was in that area and that was last summer.
RailBus63 wrote:
I visited Rochester and Buffalo on Monday (photos coming soon). The 400-series single-door Classics have been retired by RGRTA and the 600-series city versions are on their way out now that the first of the new Gillig BRT's are in service.

In Buffalo, I wouldn't be surprised if some of NFTA's Classics stick around a while longer. The authority has 91 new 40-foot buses on order from Gillig (35 hybrids and 56 clean-diesels) but they also still have at least that many of the older 1993 New Flyer and 1995 American Ikarus high-floor buses in operation. Most of the Classics are still in the old orange and brown scheme but some have been repainted in the new white scheme. The Classics (as well as the Nova LFS's) are assigned to the weekday-only Cold Springs Terminal so they do not operate on weekends.

Jim D.
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